Comments for Atheist Ireland

Comment on A response to Dick Spicer’s open letter to Atheist Ireland about secular politics by Bob Rees

Bob Rees — Sat, 18 May 2013 13:26:47 +0000

HAI merely seeks equality of treatment for the non-religious, and this involves chipping patiently away at the present inequalities in the constitution, the legislation and current government practices until, eventually – yippee! – we have a secular State, separated from the Church. AI’s demand for immediate separation of Church from State is impractical, as Dick Spicer will attest, and anyway, any such Referendum would be soundly beaten. Like it or not, this is still a Catholic country, and it will be one for generations yet to come. They’ve got the money.

Comment on A response to Dick Spicer’s open letter to Atheist Ireland about secular politics by Rogier van Vugt

Rogier van Vugt — Wed, 08 May 2013 08:08:52 +0000

Ah, the bill drafters really custom-tailored the rules to silence those pesky secular organisations that fell for it…
So I can see the HAI signing on, but I’d expected a separate announcement for a new organisation called HAIA (Humanist Alliance Ireland Advocacy) or somesuch. Political action does not need a waiting period.

Comment on A response to Dick Spicer’s open letter to Atheist Ireland about secular politics by Derek Walsh

Derek Walsh — Mon, 06 May 2013 10:34:38 +0000

Setting up a separate organisation would be a neat way around the problem. However, the legislation requires the organisation to exist for five years before its members can apply to solemnise marriages, so this would not be practical. Note that that is another restriction not faced by religious groups.

Comment on A response to Dick Spicer’s open letter to Atheist Ireland about secular politics by Paddy19

Paddy19 — Mon, 06 May 2013 07:59:38 +0000

Surely a simple pragmatic solution to this problem is to set-up two HAI organisations. One to campaign politically and a separate organisation to provide services.

HAI and HAI Services.

They can have virtually the same boards and membership.

Companies and political campaigns to this all the time.

I’d rather see HAI and AI used their energies to change this priest ridden country rather than having jesuitical debates.

The ball is in the HAI court to straighen out their goals but I think AI can help by suggesting this solution which could let both groups focus on the challenges in this God forsaken country!

Comment on A response to Dick Spicer’s open letter to Atheist Ireland about secular politics by Jeanne Rathbone

Jeanne Rathbone — Sun, 05 May 2013 19:32:00 +0000

Michael has so cogently laid out the difficulty faced by HAI as it seeks parity with the religious to be recognised as registrars for weddings. The one thing that HAI celebrants have NOT got is parity.

I have already responded to Dick Spicers letter as a humanist celebrant with the British Humanist Association for the past 17 years. (I had the privilege of taking the funeral for Dave Allen – the great comedian ostracised and censored in Ireland)

I am adding my spake to the discussion. I would suggest that there is fourth option option for HAI and that is for Irish humanist celebrants to set up as a separate Humanist Ceremony Celebrants Network where the focus would be the promotion of humanist ceremonies and the management and training of humanist celebrants with its own constitution and structures. Of course, the individual celebrants would be members of HAI and free to be members of any other organisations they choose. Humanist Ceremonies is a separate self-sufficient part of the BHA for that purpose with its own structures. I am sure the same would have happened within HAI in due course for similar practical reasons as it did for us even.

It was funny this week when I had to send a further letter to my MP, who happens to be on the select committee of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill here. My letter to her stated: As you may know, humanist marriages have legal recognition in Scotland and the Republic of Ireland but not in England and Wales.

I didn’t mention the brouhaha that it has caused in Ireland. One of the concerns the select committee had was that we do ceremonies out of doors. Neither did I mention that I think that legal registrations of sexual unions should only be carried out by town hall officers registrars and that the ceremony, whether in church, castles, chateaux, parks, back gardens, marquees etc should be kept separate. I also believe that all such legal unions should be civil partnerships and the awful notions of what constitutes a marriage as preferred by the religious and the right should be eschewed by us all.

I have stopped taking weddings as they have got so extravagant but offer the 2 in 1 Wedding/Baby Naming as the inexpensive, hassle-free wedding instead and funerals will remain the most important and numerous of our ceremonies.

I am closely watching this fiasco created by the legislators get sorted before it turns into another “Irish problem with an Irish solution” .

Comment on An open letter to Atheist Ireland by Dick Spicer by Jeanne Rathbone

Jeanne Rathbone — Sun, 05 May 2013 16:18:45 +0000

I have been following the debate over this thorny question of humanist celebrants been recognised as registrars on par with priests/clergy and the inherently contradictory conditions imposed by the Irish government.
I have been a humanist celebrant for the past 17 years for the British Humanist Association. We also have been fighting to gain recognition as registrars for weddings/civil partnerships which was given to our Scottish colleagues. Having conducted many weddings abroad, especially, in France, where all couples have to be legally married by the Mayor I now conclude that this is what should happen. I now think that the legal process should be separated from the ceremonial part and the privileges now afforded to religious/supernaturalists be removed. I became a humanist celebrant to help people have a ceremony- funeral/naming/wedding – that accorded with their non-religious/humanist values and beliefs. I do not want to be a government official/registrar.
After hearing all the nonsense around what constitutes marriage, especially from the religious I have concluded that all sexual legal unions should be civil partnerships .
A legal marriage/civil partnership is a legal process and really is not much different to signing up for a joint mortgage and should be kept separate from a ceremony according to one’s beliefs and values and be free to be held anywhere at anytime. There will always be constraints if it is tied up with a legal/state process. Currently, the British Humanist Association negotiations with the government include the concern that we often hold our ceremonies out of doors, early in the morning etc.
I no longer am listed as wedding only celebrant but I my speciality is a 2 in 1 Wedding and baby naming combined ceremony which I promote as the inexpensive hassle free wedding for modern couples! These are very popular as it suits many couples who do not want an extravagant and very expensive wedding. Couples can chose to have their wedding legalised quietly during the week if they wish and many couples do.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out for Humanist celebrants. It does seem like the amended marriage law to include secular celebrants that excludes them being part of (b) a body that promotes a political cause;” is a contradiction for Humanist celebrants. The law as it stands IS an ass. The muddle seems like another Irish solution to an Irish problem. ( One is reminded of a previous compromise when the 26 county statelet was inaugurated!)
Perhaps the solution is for Humanist wedding celebrants to set up as a separate, ad hoc organisation which would not compromise the Humanist Association of Ireland. Within the BHA we have Humanist ceremonies as a separate entity for accounting/marketing/organisational purpose.

I shall be watching this space.

Jeanne Rathbone
http://humanist.org.uk/jeannerathbone
http://sheelanagigcomedienne.wordpress.com

Comment on Secular schools and human rights: extract from book chapter by Michael Nugent and Jane Donnelly by Anna B McCabe

Anna B McCabe — Sun, 05 May 2013 10:17:49 +0000

Congratulations to Michael and Jane! Well done for your chapter in the book which is long overdue. As a retired teacher I agree with the idea of a secular education system in Ireland.
I deeply regret all the indoctrination I did while teaching both here and in England (in a Catholic school) But since there is little hope of secular schools becoming a reality in Ireland in the near future I think the Educate Together schools are the next best thing in the meantime. I will buy the book and try to get others interested too.

Comment on A response to Dick Spicer’s open letter to Atheist Ireland about secular politics by Rogier van Vugt

Rogier van Vugt — Sat, 04 May 2013 05:21:35 +0000

Well written Michael!
I am much more of a firebrand, but I must say that you got the point across perfectly well with a quite respectful tone.
I hope at some point the HAI leadership will actually adress signing away the right to political action for their organization. They have not done that so far, and that’s an outrage.

Comment on An open letter to Atheist Ireland by Dick Spicer by Atheist Ireland

Atheist Ireland — Sat, 04 May 2013 01:36:31 +0000

There is now a response published to Dick Spicer’s open letter here:

http://www.atheist.ie/2013/05/a-response-to-dick-spicers-open-letter-to-atheist-ireland-about-secular-politics/

Comment on An open letter to Atheist Ireland by Dick Spicer by Derek Merren

Derek Merren — Thu, 02 May 2013 16:03:14 +0000

Hi Andrew,

Will do. Thanks for looking into it for me.

Best Regards,
Derek