the problem of Heaven

General discussions
Johnnnnn
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:43 pm

Heaven

Post by Johnnnnn » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:43 pm

Those who make the claim that there is a heaven, the burden of proof lies with them.

The concept of heaven would have been invented many times by many different cultures.

It would not take much imagination to come up with such an idea, that maybe, when a person is dead and gone, that they are then gone to somewhere else and it is a nice place and they are happier there.

It is tempting to fantasize that when one or a loved one dies, that there is a heaven waiting for them.
But for me, I see it as no more than just a fantasy. It is a meme that has propagated through the ages in many cultures.

The fantasy of heaven is a way of somewhat denying the reality of death.

Personally, I would prefer not to invest my time in such fantasies of an afterlife, as it is not like one can get a refund for the time invested when one ceases to exist. Instead, I prefer to invest my time in this life in a positive way and can do so just fine without such fantasies of an afterlife.
paulamcnc
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:10 pm

Re: Heaven

Post by paulamcnc » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:53 am

Spot on, Johnnnn, when I was a child my sister died suddenly and my Father told me we'd see her again in heaven. I really wanted to believe this, but didn't, and I asked my dad if he really, really did himself. What he said, I believe , is the whole raison détre for the heaven delusion. He said 'I have to believe in heaven, because if I let myself believe that I'll never see her again, I can't continue to live'.

When he died himself, I knew exactly what he meant. To truly believe you'll see the people you love again must be a comfort. At the time I would have loved to be able to believe it, and sometimes, when I'm hit in the heart with missing him, I still would.....
sharon
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:49 pm

Re: Heaven

Post by sharon » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:09 pm

paulamcnc wrote: When he died himself, I knew exactly what he meant. To truly believe you'll see the people you love again must be a comfort. At the time I would have loved to be able to believe it, and sometimes, when I'm hit in the heart with missing him, I still would.....
This has to be why people cling to this belief, even when, as Fintantruth said, they don't believe in hell, limbo or purgatory any more.

I was at a funeral mass a few months ago. It made me so cross when the priest started yapping on about how we have 'certain hope' that the dead 35 year old would rise with christ on the last day, that god had 'called her to himself.'

That rhetoric, I hope, will have comforted her family in the time of raw grief, but I can't help thinking that if some god had anything to do with it, he's a total shit to have called her to him at that age.
andrew
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:22 pm

Post by andrew » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:20 pm

mkaobrih wrote: In fact my hell would be to live forever. Short and sweet that’s how it should be and move on for the next generation.
Can I have your organs when your short and sweet life is up please? I'd rather not die ever thanks

Andrew :D
Emm....would anyone like to see my monkey impression?
User avatar
mkaobrih
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1602
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:48 pm

Post by mkaobrih » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:11 pm

andrew wrote: Can I have your organs when your short and sweet life is up please? I'd rather not die ever thanks

Andrew :D
LOL - No way – I’m taking them with me preferably pickled in alcohol. :lol:
Neesik
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:19 pm
Contact:

Post by Neesik » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:11 pm

I had a laugh at this one yesterday.

Non-believers should not receive Christian funeral says minister.
Rev Johnston McKay, BBC Scotland's former editor of religious broadcasting, said ministers were conducting more than 70 funerals a year and at many of them there was "no interest whatsoever" in the Christian faith.
McKay, a minister for 40 years and clerk to the Presbytery of Ardrossan, stressed he would not refuse to conduct a funeral service for a non-believer, but his comments drew criticism from fellow clerics who pointed out it was "not for human beings to decide who is worthy of God's grace".
Priceless :lol: Some good comments below the article.
Abstinence makes the Church grow fondlers.
adamd164
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Cork
Contact:

Post by adamd164 » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:20 pm

Couldn't give a toss what the old git thinks, but personally, I wish people who aren't religious would stop going through with the funeral rigmarole when a relative (obviously also non-religious) dies. It's a pointless facade. By all means, celebrate someone's life; that can easily be done outside the walls of a church.
lostexpectation
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Post by lostexpectation » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:25 am

Neesik wrote:I had a laugh at this one yesterday.

Non-believers should not receive Christian funeral says minister.
Rev Johnston McKay, BBC Scotland's former editor of religious broadcasting, said ministers were conducting more than 70 funerals a year and at many of them there was "no interest whatsoever" in the Christian faith.
well said him, he's right they don't just need a church funeral there needs to be a replacement, thats where humanists come in...but you do need the state to handle it too.. are there people who do funerals for the state in Ireland? I wonder how someone becomes a marriage registrant anyway.

I guess its something the governement woudln't be a hurry to get involved in, but why are they involved in marriages, i suppose there are legal aspects of death too they need to regulate.

Death and Taxes.

I came across an interesting story where the lack of a heaven is a problem for the American military
http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/events.html
scroll down to
riday, April 27, 2007
Article on Tillman inquiry references family's lack of
Christian belief as a problem
Johnnnnn
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:43 pm

Post by Johnnnnn » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:48 am

paulamcnc
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:10 pm

Post by paulamcnc » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:49 pm

Johnnnnn wrote:Atheist's Paradise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpEcdCf0SNo
Great vid, says it all.
Post Reply