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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:58 pm
by CatHerder
Ygern wrote:Welcome back from the holiday, Catherder! :D

How was it - and did the sunblock hold out?
had a great time with my sweetheart, factor fifty works too good, didnt even get a tan :cry:

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:34 am
by Superstitious Fool
Thanks for the friendly welcome. Some of you people are quite nice for heathens. But one or two of you who have visited the Irish Catholics board have some strange ideas of us. Certainly we believe in things that you consider absurd or impossible, but we are not a powerful and sinister secret society that runs the world. That's the Freemasons :twisted:.

If you do want an honest answer (I promise) to questions about us and our beliefs, I'll do my best to answer. But I should point out that even among Catholics I would be considered conservative (I am a Latin Mass-goer with a violent loathing of liberalism both in religion and in social matters), so my answers may not be those of the priest in the badly chosen pullover in your nearest parish, or the nun in the anorak who might have visited your school.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:13 am
by nozzferrahhtoo
Superstitious Fool wrote:Certainly we believe in things that you consider absurd or impossible
I hope this doesnt become a habit :) But I would personally like to distance myself from this comment too. Certainly all the things you beleive are possible I suppose and hence are not absurd. All your beleifs are indeed quiet possible. The fact remains however that you, or anyone else in the field, are yet to offer any evidence that the beliefs are true. Thats all.

If someone proposes a theory then the onus is on them to prove the theory or at least provide evidence for it. Until such a time as they do so the theory can, and indeed should, be shelved and ignored.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:52 am
by Ygern
Superstitious Fool wrote: ... questions about us and our beliefs, I'll do my best to answer..
Thank you for the offer.
But you should be aware that the majority of us were raised Catholics, and know just as much about Catholic beliefs and doctrines as the average Church-going Believer.

When you characterise yourself as someone who has a
violent loathing of liberalism ... in religion
could you elaborate please?

Is it more than just features such as 'folk' masses (I agree, they are pretty awful)?

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:11 pm
by FXR
Ygern wrote: Thank you for the offer.
But you should be aware that the majority of us were raised Catholics, and know just as much about Catholic beliefs and doctrines as the average Church-going Believer.

I have to disagree on that one there Ygern. In my experience the average Chruch goer is just that through ignorance of most of the doctrines and beliefs of HQ in Rome.

To be a believer requires unquestioning acceptance. To be an non-believer requires examination and investigation of the beliefs and doctrines.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:51 pm
by nozzferrahhtoo
Superstitious Fool wrote:But one or two of you who have visited the Irish Catholics board have some strange ideas of us.
Yes you asked where we get such ideas about you and I think you should look to your own site for the answer to this. The level of delusion of one of your users is unbelievable. Its believers like this that make your faith open to ridicule and mockery. I think you will find in the weeks to come that this user is more damaging to your site than 10s of the atheist users from here.

This user is dishonest in that he has openly lied, and misquoted me in an attempt to twist what I said. He has told me my point in saying things that my points clearly are not.

He has claimed to be a war hero with so many decorations they don’t fit on his jacket.... this being more medals than most generals get if they spend their WHOLE life in the army. Yet he has not done this his entire life because he is apparently also claiming to be a medical scientist, a teacher, a person who has worked with mentally challenged kids, a roadie for several bands, a member of a very successful band himself, a husband to a playboy mansion reject and a millionaire and now just today a cancer victim who underwent a miraculous recovery which science has been unable to explain.

He has then avoided having to make any citations of evidence or reason by just claiming I was breaking the law by making any points at all about the catholic faith and they my presence on the board is a legal issue.

Where do we get ideas about the Catholics and their faith? We get them from certain fringe elements in your faith like this lunatic (I try never to use insults in my discourse on these subjects but this man is clearly beyond the fringes of sanity) combined with some awful movements and agendas like that recent movement to remove safe sex education in Scotland. It is these elements that give us the impression of your faith that we have sir.

When we stand up against it they want our reasons, our evidence, our arguments and our justification. When asked for the same they just cite faith, and "its what god wants" and revealed truth. Its one rule for them and one rule for us and its tiresome.

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:37 pm
by FXR
A group of Veteran doctors 15 altogether told me I had cancer in my neck and they would have to cut it out so I went before the operation to a Catholic Priest and asked him to pray to God for me and annoint me that God would heal me. The next day I went to the hospital where the doctors cut half my neck out with knives. They send my flesh that they cut out to the laboratory for examination and there was no cancer in my flesh at all. So I was healed by prayer to God through Christ Our Lord. Now I have to live the rest of my life with half my neck gone by some ignorant doctors who cut my neck and who do not believe in the power of God

Ist Prize for Biggest Biopsy of all Time!
:roll:

I don't think it was her neck they cut in half.....

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:57 am
by Superstitious Fool
Ygern wrote:But you should be aware that the majority of us were raised Catholics, and know just as much about Catholic beliefs and doctrines as the average Church-going Believer.
Would I be wrong in assuming that most members of this forum are younger than me (I am 51)? If you are more than a few years younger than me, your "Catholic" education would have been an insult to anyone's intelligence. Having turned my back on it at the age of 16 because it was so vacuous, and having then lived and read and experienced (and sinned, as we call it) a bit, I found the Catholic faith again when I was 30.
Ygern wrote:[When you characterise yourself as someone who has a
violent loathing of liberalism ... in religion
could you elaborate please? Is it more than just features such as 'folk' masses (I agree, they are pretty awful)?
The folk masses would disgust anyone with a brain or any aesthetic sense at all, but it is more than that. I don't want to take advantage of your hospitality here, and I know many members here thing this is nonsense, but the Mass is the centre of Catholic belief — a re-enactment in an absolutely literal way of the consecration of the bread and wine at the Last Supper and then of Christ's sacrifice when he was crucified. Since about 1975, most Irish Catholic priests, religious and their lay associates have tried to make the Mass as close to a commemorative meal as possible, with the congregation as the centre of the event, in a misguided effort to eliminate the differences between Catholics and Protestants. This is what I mainly deplore. I realise that for some of your members here, this is what Ian O'Doherty would call two bald men fighting over a comb. However I am answering the question you asked me.

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:58 am
by inedifix
Superstitious Fool wrote:If you do want an honest answer (I promise) to questions about us and our beliefs, I'll do my best to answer.
Hi SF, I've a couple of questions:

1. You say you have "a violent loathing of liberalism both in religion and in social matters", just for starters, could you perhaps let me know your feelings on homelessness. Does the state have a responsibility to help the homeless and work to end homelessness, or does the responsibility rest with the homeless themselves.

2. Likewise, on the subject of homosexuality, do you believe that homosexuals "choose" to pervert their sexual nature (risking family strife, public ridicule, humiliation and physical attack) on purpose, or do you believe that they are responding to innate tendencies/inclinations?

3. Is it possible for a person such as yourself to understand God's motivation and morals?

4. Is it better for Mass to be said in Latin than English, and why?

5. Do you believe all things are created by God?

I

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:07 pm
by Ygern
@SF

Thanks for your reply. Some folk here are older, some are younger than you. But don't mistake age for individual experience, or for the ability for people to educate themselves.

I am just over a decade younger than you. I did not grow up in this country but was well schooled in Catechism by my mother. I went to Latin masses, bi-weekly rosary and Benediction (also in Latin) - although I also had to endure the occasional 'folk' mass. I also had weekly religious instruction classes from our priest on Fridays, more Catechism classes on Tueday night after school, and weekly bible study class in school (although that was a sort of multi-denominational affair).

This is why I said that I was as familiar as any with the Catholic faith. FXR disagrees, and says I am more familiar than many. :shock: