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the angelus and rte

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:35 pm
by randomcrisis
hi all, how's it going

What do people think regarding the angelus on rte? Are people for or against or not bothered?

I've been giving this some thought regarding what legislation we could use to get rte to take it off the air, such as the Equality act ( under religious discrimination ) or the ... of_Ireland as citizens of this country what pay tax and license fee should not have to contribute towards the broadcasting of overtly one sided RC dogma.

I'd like to know what people think about this.



Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:02 pm
by FXR
It should be banned from the radio and tv and the mass should be banned on Sunday mornings as well. RTE is like the media wing of the Vatican at times. They also have a religious programme in the evenings and give fawning uncritical blanket coverage to shit like World Youth Day and the canonisation of saints.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:58 pm
by rtcostelloe
Look, I’m not happy with all the religious propaganda shown on Irish tv like everyone else, but is there anyone who is seriously offended by sixty seconds of bell ringing?

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:16 pm
by Ygern
I don't think its a matter of being seriously offended.
Its a matter of being representational of only one religion in a country which has become multi-denominational.

Some people are going to defend it on the basis that its traditional - let's face it, the number of people who actually drop to their knees to say the Angelus every day at 6pm are statistically insignificant.

Bells ringing at 6pm has no particular emotive or cultural significance to me. On that basis alone, I would say that I don't care whether they ring or not. But my problem with it is what it represents. And - this is not - the Catholic Church per se; but rather the way the general public in its apathetic way doesn't bother to think critically about institutions.

The bells may represent a part of Ireland's history, but its a rather ugly history, full of exploitation, abuse and parochial subjugation of both adults and children. If people had been encouraged to think critically or indeed to challenge the accepted norms and traditions, then just maybe some of the horrors recently come to light would never have happened in the first place.

On that basis I would prefer to not hear the Angelus rung.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:10 pm
by andrew
rtcostelloe wrote:Look, I’m not happy with all the religious propaganda shown on Irish tv like everyone else, but is there anyone who is seriously offended by sixty seconds of bell ringing?
I'm offended by the fact that a percentage of my license fee pays for this voodoo rubbish.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:40 pm
by rtcostelloe
I'm not defending the angelus I'm simply stating my own personal opinion. I don't care if they ring it or not, I don't know if it offends any other culture or religious group in Ireland, I’ve never heard anyone complain about it. As for it standing as some kind of monument or reminder of the horrible and horrifying abuses that happened in the name of the church, I don't see that either. I understand you're point about wanting people to be more critical in their thinking of religion because I’ve found most people I know when pressed on the subject don't believe it either. However I don't feel a campaign to get the angelus off the air is the way open up a reasonable debate among people about belief. It's more likely to but people’s backs up; to be dismissed as crazy Atheists attacking a meaningless part of the church. My guess is most people see it as harmless and wouldn't respond to any sort of debate about it.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:44 pm
by Ygern
I don't see this as an atheist issue. It is an equality issue.

It is true that it seems fairly insignificant, possibly even petty; but that's probably why its a good subject for debate. It doesn't need to be a legal campaign, but it would do no-one any harm to have to think about why its 'ok' for the National Broadcaster to promote one religion.

I'm sure that many Protestants and immigrants to Ireland have never complained about it; but that doesn't mean that they don't mind it. Even small, relatively meaningless gestures can contribute to a group feeling marginalised.

Its not about whether its doing any significant harm.
But I haven't heard any convincing arguments from the other side about why they think it should be allowed to continue.

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:45 pm
by Alexis
Ygern wrote:
Its a matter of being representational of only one religion in a country which has become multi-denominational.
The Catholic Church still owns and controls the national schools and hospitals in Ireland, so we're hardly a multi-dominational country. It may look like that on the surface, but in practice its not. And just because thousands of Irish people no longer go to Sunday Mass etc., it doesn't mean they are free of the dire effects of their Roman Catholic upbringing. Such psychological freedom requires a lot of introspection followed by a lot of hard work on one's own damaged psyche.

As for the Angelus bells: anytime I happen to hear them on the radio or tv, I reach for the Mute button - they're so hard on the ears - to me, they reflect the inherent aggression of the Catholic Church!

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:37 pm
by IrishKnight
We talked about this before... ... 94&start=0
I remember a while back thinking about the whole religion thing on RTÉ, so I downloaded their Programme Guidelines. This is what I found,
No editorial or programming bias shall be shown in terms of gender, age, disability, race, sexual orientation, religion or membership of a minority community
Reflect the diverse values of the people of Ireland, specifically cultural, including language, religion and regional needs across all age groups.
Found under the Care in the Use of Language section,
There are Muslim, Hindu, Confucian and Jewish communities in Ireland as well as other religions that should be recognised and treated with respect.
And under the Religious Beliefs section,
RTÉ, as part of its commitment to public service broadcasting, reflects in its general output on radio, television, web and print publishing the cultural and spiritual values of the people of Ireland. As many people regard their religious faiths as central to their lives it is important that the audience can find on RTÉ programmes that reflect the significance of religion in Ireland today. RTÉ will continue to broadcast religious services on both radio and television and will also provide programming dealing with religious and spiritual topics on a regular basis.

The editorial principles underlying that coverage include:

1. Respect for all religious views
The fundamental right to hold religious views and to practise religion will be respected. The important place religion holds in the life of the community will be celebrated and acknowledged. RTÉ will contribute towards the audience’s understanding of international issues by providing information on and analysis of the role of world religions.

2. Tolerance of the diversity of beliefs people hold
RTÉ in its output will reflect the faiths traditionally found in Ireland. RTÉ should also as appropriate cover the religions of new groups arriving in Ireland and new faiths as they emerge. RTÉ will also acknowledge in its programming people who are agnostic or atheistic. EDIT: That last part made me smile

3. Avoidance of the giving of offence to those who hold religious views
This involves sensitivity towards people’s beliefs, towards religious festivals and feast days, towards icons and words associated with religious beliefs, towards liturgical practices and rituals and towards historically significant events in the histories of particular religions. The denigration of religious beliefs and the mockery of faith are not permitted. It is however, acceptable to examine critically religious beliefs, institutions and experiences in factual programmes, dramas and other genres of output.
Tis what little research I did...

great research - now what?

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:44 pm
by hamilton
That research should be used to ask RTÉ why they have such explicit religious programming. Well done!