Turkey bans website of Richard Dawkins

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Ygern
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Post by Ygern » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:50 pm

I'm surprised that Turkish courts will deal with such a litigiousman.

In quite a few countries, when someone continually sues people for defamation or libel, the courts start to lose patience with them, and their cases start being thrown out of court.

Does this not happen in Turkey too?
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Post by adamd164 » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:44 pm

Ygern wrote:I'm surprised that Turkish courts will deal with such a litigiousman.

In quite a few countries, when someone continually sues people for defamation or libel, the courts start to lose patience with them, and their cases start being thrown out of court.

Does this not happen in Turkey too?
I started a thread on him at some stage last year cos he was holding a propaganda rally in UCC as part of his "Atlas of Creation" book tour.

He's an absolute power hungry lunatic.
Ygern
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Post by Ygern » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:07 pm

What's that word for someone who claims to have something, and then it turns out that they don't actually have what they said they did?

Article in the Independant

Funny bit:
Adnan Oktar said that he has "issued a call to all evolutionists" that he will give "10 trillion Turkish lira to anyone who produces a single intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution" – a sum roughly equal to £4.4trn.

As PZ Myers points out: We're all going to be rich! :wink:
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Post by DollarLama » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:39 pm

Adnan Oktar is a dangerous man:
Irish Times wrote: Turkey blocks paper's website

ISTANBUL - The website of Turkey's third-largest-selling newspaper has been blocked after a complaint by an Islamic creationist.

Turkish internet users are now denied access to the Vatan newspaper's website, www.gazetevatan.com, after a court decided it had insulted Turkish writer Adnan Oktar, who disputes the theory of evolution. - (Guardian service)
regards
DL
Ygern
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Post by Ygern » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:45 pm

Actually, it would almost be funny. He's turning the Turkish Courts into a joke too. I'm beginning to think that there's a very coprrupt judge in there somewhere. Otherwise, no single individual would be able to get away with bringing constant court cases of this nature, let alone winning them.
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Post by Yazar » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:12 am

Alas the Turkish courts don't need Oktar to turn them into a joke. The largest case ever tried, Ergenekon, started on Monday. There are 88 defendants in the case, some held in custody, others not. Some of those defendants have up to 10 lawyers (it's the case I mentioned in an earlier post). So between defendants, lawyers, prosecutors, family members and selected members of the press there's a lot of people coming to watch the case. But the courtroom was so crowded on Monday the case had to be adjourned. One of the defendants, the ex university president, couldn't even get into the room. Its due to restart tomorrow when hopefully someone will have added up some numbers and found a larger courtroom.

I really don't know how they even let Oktar file a case at all, though of course he has his own organisation backing him up and I believe he's linked to Fethullah Gulen a New York Islamic preacher so it's probably not his name on the case.
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Post by DollarLama » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:55 am

Yazar wrote:Alas the Turkish courts don't need Oktar to turn them into a joke. The largest case ever tried, Ergenekon, started on Monday. There are 88 defendants in the case, some held in custody, others not. Some of those defendants have up to 10 lawyers (it's the case I mentioned in an earlier post). So between defendants, lawyers, prosecutors, family members and selected members of the press there's a lot of people coming to watch the case. But the courtroom was so crowded on Monday the case had to be adjourned. One of the defendants, the ex university president, couldn't even get into the room. Its due to restart tomorrow when hopefully someone will have added up some numbers and found a larger courtroom.

I really don't know how they even let Oktar file a case at all, though of course he has his own organisation backing him up and I believe he's linked to Fethullah Gulen a New York Islamic preacher so it's probably not his name on the case.
Hi Yazar - glad to see you're still checking in here regularly. It's really interesting to have the perspective from Turkey. (You signed off as 'Cathy' at one point earlier in this thread - can I take it you're not Turkish yourself? (Not that that matters.) Are you based there?)

This is how the Irish Times reported the first day of the Ergenekon trial: Turkish court starts hearing coup case

There are plenty of articles in that newspaper on Ergenekon: Search IrishTimes.com for Ergenekon

Am I saying you can trust what the Irish Times is saying? Maybe. On the other hand, at least Wikipedia has flagged the fact that the page on Fethullah Gulen is probably not balanced. It's my guess they're right:
Wikipedia wrote:Some secularists claim that his objective is to abolish Turkey's secular state; although court rulings have not supported this
(Why is it up to the courts to decide? Either the evidence is there, or it's not.)
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Post by Yazar » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:54 am

I'm from Dublin but have been living in Turkey for seven years at this stage.

The Irish Times seems fairly ok about Ergenekon, doesn't want to stand on any toes. Ergenekon is seen as being an effort to rout out any nationalist who doesn't like the current administration. My guess is that in a country of 70 million people there are probably hundreds of nationalist groups from extremist to moderate. Ergenekon seems to be an umbrella to get the trouble makers (according to some) from all those groups in one courtroom.

It is interesting that virtually every wave of Ergenekon arrests came within a few days of rulings on the headscarf ban, the Deniz Feneri case in Germany and various other accusations of corruption against the ruling AKP.

As regards Gulen, Recep Tayyip Erdogan is a sympathizer. Gulen moved to the US after being accused of trying to undermine the secular government of the time (late 90's I think). That trial finished up recently and found him not guilty. Is it surprising that a court in a country with a leader sympathetic to his cause (of secular Islam) would find him not guilty? Not at all. If the government was different would the verdict be different? I really don't know enough to tell. Is the evidence there or not? I couldn't tell you.

And even if it was there it may not be anymore. The Ergenekon case started when grenades were found in a gecekondu (illegal neighbourhood, no planning etc) in Istanbul. The grenades were destroyed the following day. A couple of months later the waves of arrests started, firstly linking people to those grenades before becoming more complicated.

One thing to know is that Turks are very good at reading between the lines and that reading will be very much influenced by their own particular beliefs. Nothing is taken at face value, so what to one person is moderate becomes a veiled extreme to another. It makes it difficult to distinguish truth from speculation in a media very much defined by the boss's political leanings.

I'm giving such a bad impression of the way the country is run here! It still seems to work albeit in a bizarre fashion.

Cathy
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Post by Yazar » Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:59 am

Now they're taking the piss.

A court in Diyarbakir has banned Blogger/Blogspot. Lots of rumours about why but nothing definite.

Today's Zaman 'Turkey must change Internet law'

I can get around the ban but that is not the point!!

Cathy
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Post by psillery » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:58 pm

Yazar wrote:Now they're taking the piss.

A court in Diyarbakir has banned Blogger/Blogspot. Lots of rumours about why but nothing definite.

Today's Zaman 'Turkey must change Internet law'

I can get around the ban but that is not the point!!

Cathy
Man this is getting out of hand!
"All thinking men are atheists."
Ernest Hemingway
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