Child-Raping Priests

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Superstitious Fool
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Post by Superstitious Fool » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:54 pm

tony wrote:
Superstitious Fool wrote:There are (according to published statistics) proportionately no more child rapists among priests than there are among men who are not priests.
Superstitious Fool,
I said "for an organisation". No other organisation has had such a huge problem with paedophilia as the Catholic Church. Even if what you are saying is true and there is an even balance of paedophiles in the church as society or other organisations, you don't see many other organisations protecting those within its ranks who have raped children the way the Catholic Church has.
I accept the last point. Like most Catholics, including the present Pope, I am ashamed of the way the Church authorities (in many though not all cases) behaved in protecting perverts.
tony wrote:
Superstitious Fool wrote: The most basic Christian ideas about sex are these ... [edit]
I think this one probably deserves its own thread. The whole concept of purity runs right the way through christianity. Immaculate conception, Mary Immaculate, Virgin Mary, no sex before marriage, etc etc.

At the end of the day the alleged ceilbates dont want anyone having sex for fun, only to make more christians. And it has to be by their terms. In the eyes of the church sex is a sin, even between married couples. the immaculate conception- Mary conceived without sin etc. The mother of god couldn't be conceived through sin. Check it out. By pushing the notion of purity anyone who is not a virgin is therefore impure which is a perverse notion. Bullying and mind control at its best. All the talk about gods love for us being reflected through our love for each other , i'm afraid is romantic rubbish which all too many people are seduced by. Free your mind!!
Ah my mind is fine thanks. And your description of Catholic attitudes to sex is a bit of a caricature. But it does contain some elements of truth as far as Ireland is concerned. One of our problems in Ireland is that when Catholicism was suppressed, many of our priests were trained in France and were influenced by a deviant local tendency called Jansenism which was preoccupied with sin and sex and often regarded the two as the same thing. Then, when the Church flourished in Ireland after Emancipation, the growing Catholic middle class often embraced Victorian attitudes to sex which were just as negative. So the twentieth-century Church in Ireland inherited a profoundly unhealthy view of sex which did great harm in many cases.

But I would still defend the basic Catholic theology of sex as something with two complementary and inseparable purposes: the creation of life and the love of a man for a woman.

It might indeed be worth a separate thread, as you say.
Michael G
tony
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Post by tony » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:01 am

Superstitious Fool,
The obsession with sin and sex is derived directly from the bible. You say my 'caricature' contains some elements of truth. Which parts are false and why? Do you think the act of sex is a sin? The church does. Do you not find the whole obsession with virginity unusual at least?

If you teach someone that they are virtuous and pure for not having sex before marriage, would you not think that they will consider someone who does have sex before marriage as impure?I think it is a disgusting idea that someone thinks someone who has sex before marriage is tarnished and a sinner, but people buy into it.

The church in Ireland did not inherit an unhealthy view of sex, the fundamental doctrine of christianity is unhealthy to start with.You cant blame the French for that one! The muslims inherited this same doctrine from the old testament and look at how they treat sex. Middle ages Europe under christianity was not too different in terms of intolerance and persecution.

Anyway, these warped religious views on sexuality combined with other elements such as celibacy and power I feel contribute to the high proportion of child rapists in the Catholic Church. It would make a great thesis for some University student if they would get funding for it!!
Superstitious Fool
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Post by Superstitious Fool » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:47 am

tony wrote:Superstitious Fool,
The obsession with sin and sex is derived directly from the bible. You say my 'caricature' contains some elements of truth. Which parts are false and why? Do you think the act of sex is a sin? The church does. Do you not find the whole obsession with virginity unusual at least?
The Church does not think the act of sex is a sin. The Church says that the act of sex has a metaphysical significance. I don't know what you mean by the "obsession with virginity". The idea that virginity is a distinct state is rooted in cultures that pre-dated the monotheistic religions; for example pre-Christian Greece and Rome and some old Mesopotamian religions that I can't name at the moment. They thought that, for both men and women, to have sex (because it involved the possibility of bringing a third person into being) meant giving up one's separateness. The monotheistic religions, and Catholic Christianity in particular, believe that every person (including those conceived but not yet born) is unique, eternal and infinitely important; that is also why they all believe also that people having sex is a serious and morally significant matter.
Michael G
tony
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Post by tony » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:07 pm

Superstitious Fool,
The church certainly thinks sex outside marriage is a sin. Do you think this?
adamd164
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Post by adamd164 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:53 pm

Never a laughing matter, but I must admit the subtle absence of a hyphen between 'child' and 'raping' had me doing a double take!

Edit: fixed now, thanks tony! :)
washington
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Post by washington » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:48 am

Paedophiles are predatory, opportunistic, manipulative personalities who choose their careers carefully to ensure access to vulnerable child victims. No doubt the priesthood, sports/coaching, teaching and such are areas of attraction for them. Remember Ivan Payne?...did he ask to become chaplin to the Hospital for Sick Children...I'd lay a bet that he did...maybe cardinal Connell could come clean on that one...maybe thats in the hidden files he was so reluctant to hand over?
bipedalhumanoid
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Post by bipedalhumanoid » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:24 am

washington wrote:Paedophiles are predatory, opportunistic, manipulative personalities who choose their careers carefully to ensure access to vulnerable child victims. No doubt the priesthood, sports/coaching, teaching and such are areas of attraction for them. Remember Ivan Payne?...did he ask to become chaplin to the Hospital for Sick Children...I'd lay a bet that he did...maybe cardinal Connell could come clean on that one...maybe thats in the hidden files he was so reluctant to hand over?
My point exactly.
Superstitious Fool
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Post by Superstitious Fool » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:50 pm

tony wrote:Superstitious Fool,
The church certainly thinks sex outside marriage is a sin. Do you think this?
I wouldn't want to give them impression that I choose which Church teachings to believe. But the direct answer is yes.
Michael G
FXR
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Post by FXR » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:08 pm

Superstitious Fool wrote:
tony wrote:Superstitious Fool,
The church certainly thinks sex outside marriage is a sin. Do you think this?
I wouldn't want to give them impression that I choose which Church teachings to believe. But the direct answer is yes.
There was a good discussion about this on Irish Catholic where at least the Catholic members had the courage to start the topic. Over at boards.ie the subject is very cowardly banned from the Catholic section.

Of course deleting the thread subsequently kinda ruined it.

The one killer question that sent everyone into mummified silence was:

Would you leave you child alone and unsupervised with a Catholic priest for extended periods of time?
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
Superstitious Fool
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Post by Superstitious Fool » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:23 pm

FXR wrote:Would you leave your child alone and unsupervised with a Catholic priest for extended periods of time?
I don't know what the question really means. Would you leave me, or yourself if you were another child's father, or a postman, or a Church of Ireland Minister, or a priest? Perhaps the answer is what you would make of each of us. You might apply the same test to a friend or neighbour.
Michael G
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