Child-Raping Priests

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Superstitious Fool
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Post by Superstitious Fool » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:14 am

JH wrote:Not to mention any deviant priest who passes the screening process will be under less scrutiny and possibly feel they can get away with more.

I wonder what form the screening process takes? Are they going to wire their genitals up to monitors and force them to watch porn?

The sad fact is that there are priests abusing children right now, and they will continue. One solution is to disband the priesthood and abolish the christian church. Either that or castrate them when they enter the priesthood to eliminate sexual urges (they're priests, what do they need testosterone for?)
In some metaphysical way, are you the counterpart of my Royal O Siodhachain and SaintStephen?
Michael G
Superstitious Fool
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Post by Superstitious Fool » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:19 am

FXR wrote:It's also interesting that Herr Ratzinger declares war on secularism one day and a while later suggests using secular standards to filter new recruits.
A whole new thread beckons. Secular versus secularist. An even wider thread is possible on some forum for people who write dictionaries, about changing an adjective into an adverb by adding the suffix -ist. Please God count me out.
Michael G
JH
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Post by JH » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:22 am

Superstitious Fool wrote:
JH wrote:The sad fact is that there are priests abusing children right now, and they will continue. One solution is to disband the priesthood and abolish the christian church. Either that or castrate them when they enter the priesthood to eliminate sexual urges (they're priests, what do they need testosterone for?)
In some metaphysical way, are you the counterpart of my Royal O Siodhachain and SaintStephen?
I just knew you'd appreciate that post...! :lol: :lol:
tony
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Post by tony » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:24 am

Ygern wrote: I certainly don't think that becoming a priest makes anyone a paedophile (rubbish) or that it makes someone more likely to be a paedophile (equally rubbish).

...
However, I do think that the privileged and somewhat sequestered lifestyle of a priest is attractive to certain emotionally unbalanced young men seeking some sort of refuge from the real world - and I'm not referring to child molesters here. Just men with sexuality issues that they don't want to deal with.
I dunno about this statement. It is beyond doubt that for an organisation there is a disproportionate amount of child rapists in the clergy. It must be true to say that if you are a priest you are more likely to be a paedophile.

You think the lifestyle is attractive to certain emotionally unbalanced young men. In this case these are vulnerable young men and their new environment must impact them negatively, unfortunately turning some into paedophiles. The whole christian doctrine is perverse when it comes to sexuality.
bipedalhumanoid
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Post by bipedalhumanoid » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:36 am

Lots of people (people not in relationships, widows, widowers, ugly people,teenage boys, people yet to come to terms with their homosexuality etc) are sexually repressed for extended periods without becoming child rapists. I think it is far more likely that people with paedophilic tendancies are attracted to the priesthood and that that is the reason for the high incidences of paedophilia in the catholic church. Nobody can say for sure but the latter hypothesis makes a lot more sense.

I think some of us are allowing our contempt for the catholic church to get in the way of our reason.
Superstitious Fool
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Post by Superstitious Fool » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:56 am

tony wrote:It is beyond doubt that for an organisation there is a disproportionate amount of child rapists in the clergy. It must be true to say that if you are a priest you are more likely to be a paedophile.
No it is not beyond doubt. There are (according to published statistics) proportionately no more child rapists among priests than there are among men who are not priests.
tony wrote:You think the lifestyle is attractive to certain emotionally unbalanced young men. In this case these are vulnerable young men and their new environment must impact them negatively, unfortunately turning some into paedophiles.
No, I said it might have been in the past. And I think their new environment might, for some of them, have led them into imagining and then wanting sex with children or having other deviant inclinations.
tony wrote:The whole christian doctrine is perverse when it comes to sexuality.
Why? The most basic Christian ideas about sex are these:

Every human from the time of his or her conception is made in the image of God and will live forever.

Men and women having sex is how God brings these everlasting humans into existence.

Men and women loving each other (loving each other as opposed to "making love") is a reflection of God's love. When you feel most intensely that you love your wife or girlfriend, as I do with mine, that is an intimation of our love for God — constrained by the fact that we have limited imagination whereas God by definition has no need of imagination at all.
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Post by Ygern » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:00 am

tony wrote: It is beyond doubt that for an organisation there is a disproportionate amount of child rapists in the clergy. It must be true to say that if you are a priest you are more likely to be a paedophile.
Ok, here is the error in your argument.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Sentence 1 is possibly true.
BUT that does not mean that Sentence 2 is therefore true.

It might be true, but you need to back it up with data.

I mean, it might equally be possible that substantially more rape cases are brought against an institution where the odds of winning are statisically higher; than are brought against private paedophilic rapists with limited financial resources.

[Just to head off any statements about false rape claims - that's not what my previous sentence is about. I'm talking about the percentage of rape cases that actually end up in front of a judge.]
tony
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Post by tony » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:03 pm

Superstitious Fool wrote:
tony wrote:It is beyond doubt that for an organisation there is a disproportionate amount of child rapists in the clergy. It must be true to say that if you are a priest you are more likely to be a paedophile.
No it is not beyond doubt. There are (according to published statistics) proportionately no more child rapists among priests than there are among men who are not priests.
Superstitious Fool,
I said "for an organisation". No other organisation has had such a huge problem with paedophilia as the Catholic Church. Even if what you are saying is true and there is an even balance of paedophiles in the church as society or other organisations, you don't see many other organisations protecting those within its ranks who have raped children the way the Catholic Church has.
Superstitious Fool wrote:
tony wrote:You think the lifestyle is attractive to certain emotionally unbalanced young men. In this case these are vulnerable young men and their new environment must impact them negatively, unfortunately turning some into paedophiles.
No, I said it might have been in the past. And I think their new environment might, for some of them, have led them into imagining and then wanting sex with children or having other deviant inclinations.
I was addressing Ygern with this comment if you check the post.
Superstitious Fool wrote:
tony wrote:The whole christian doctrine is perverse when it comes to sexuality.
Why? The most basic Christian ideas about sex are these:

Every human from the time of his or her conception is made in the image of God and will live forever.

Men and women having sex is how God brings these everlasting humans into existence.

Men and women loving each other (loving each other as opposed to "making love") is a reflection of God's love. When you feel most intensely that you love your wife or girlfriend, as I do with mine, that is an intimation of our love for God — constrained by the fact that we have limited imagination whereas God by definition has no need of imagination at all.
I think this one probably deserves its own thread. The whole concept of purity runs right the way through christianity. Immaculate conception, Mary Immaculate, Virgin Mary, no sex before marriage, etc etc.

At the end of the day the alleged ceilbates dont want anyone having sex for fun, only to make more christians. And it has to be by their terms. In the eyes of the church sex is a sin, even between married couples. the immaculate conception- Mary conceived without sin etc. The mother of god couldn't be conceived through sin. Check it out. By pushing the notion of purity anyone who is not a virgin is therefore impure which is a perverse notion. Bullying and mind control at its best. All the talk about gods love for us being reflected through our love for each other , i'm afraid is romantic rubbish which all too many people are seduced by. Free your mind!!
tony
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Post by tony » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:29 pm

Ygern wrote:
tony wrote: It is beyond doubt that for an organisation there is a disproportionate amount of child rapists in the clergy. It must be true to say that if you are a priest you are more likely to be a paedophile.
Ok, here is the error in your argument.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Sentence 1 is possibly true.
BUT that does not mean that Sentence 2 is therefore true.

It might be true, but you need to back it up with data.

I mean, it might equally be possible that substantially more rape cases are brought against an institution where the odds of winning are statisically higher; than are brought against private paedophilic rapists with limited financial resources.

[Just to head off any statements about false rape claims - that's not what my previous sentence is about. I'm talking about the percentage of rape cases that actually end up in front of a judge.]
Ygern,
I dont think your analysis of my comment was correct.
What i said was if you are a priest you are more likely to be a paedophile given that there is a disproportionate number of paedophiles in the catholic church compared to other organisations. You are statistically more likely.

I think its sad that there is no genuine questioning in society as to why it is statistically higher. People just don't want their beliefs shaken.
tony
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Post by tony » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:05 pm

bipedalhumanoid wrote:Lots of people (people not in relationships, widows, widowers, ugly people,teenage boys, people yet to come to terms with their homosexuality etc) are sexually repressed for extended periods without becoming child rapists. I think it is far more likely that people with paedophilic tendancies are attracted to the priesthood and that that is the reason for the high incidences of paedophilia in the catholic church. Nobody can say for sure but the latter hypothesis makes a lot more sense.

I think some of us are allowing our contempt for the catholic church to get in the way of our reason.
I dont think that sexual repression turns people in paedophiles either. I'm saying that i think there is a culture in the organisation which leads a significant number of these men through a combination of factors, including celibacy(a big factor i feel) to molest children. Some get violent , physically or psychologically.Other smoke 40 cigarettes a day. Other factors include the power they have over people and the amount of access to children.

The CC is around almost 2000 years and doesn't change its ways in a hurry. All organisations have their own particular cultures and i think there is a culture of this stuff in the church. There have been countless cover-ups and the church has its own way of dealing with it.It is tolerated within the church unlike in society.

When a young immature man who hasn't fully developed his own mind enters a large organisation he will be influenced heavily and molded by the culture of that organisation. I suppose it can be compared to young people entering the police or military, i suppose it is a form of brainwashing. They are indoctrinated into that world.

Good people can end up doing terrible things if you put them in certain circumstances and environment. I definately think this is the case with priests.

I find it a far fetched notion to believe young paedophiles target the church as a career. Actually, i think it is a mad idea.
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