Child-Raping Priests

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tony
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Post by tony » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:25 pm

Irish Times Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 10:03
Calls for Cloyne abuse report to be published
LUKE CASSIDY

Calls have been made for the Government to immediately publish a report into the handling of allegations of sexual abuse against members of the clergy in the Diocese of Cloyne.

Labour’s Sean Sherlock said the Government’s refusal to publish the report is “a totally cowardly position”.

The report, prepared by Ian Elliot, chief executive of the National Board for Safeguarding Children in the Catholic Church (NBSCCC), was submitted to Minister of State for Children Barry Andrews last July.

Mr Sherlock said: “We now need to know exactly what Mr Elliot established and what action is being taken in the Diocese of Cloyne to implement the recommendations he made.

“This is the least we owe to those who were subjected to shocking sexual abuse and whose complaints do not appear to have been dealt with in an appropriate manner.”

However, Mr Andrews said that as the report was not commissioned by the Government, responsibility for its publication lies with the NBSCCC.

© 2008 irishtimes.com
CelticAtheist
Posts: 284
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:55 pm

Post by CelticAtheist » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:37 pm

Superstitious Fool wrote:
FXR wrote:[How could an Omnipotent Supreme Designer include inopportune farting, cramp, badly timed bowel movements and involuntary belching in something sacred?
That's what happens when you have sex with atheists. None of that happens with a Christian, but you have to marry them first to find out.
No, I'd say it's the other way around...
Poor people don't find out til they're committed.....
washington
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Atheist Ireland Member
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Post by washington » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:37 pm

When one considers the awful history of priestly paedophilia over say the last fifty/forty years not only in Ireland but also in Britain, Canada, Australia and the US where data exists in terms of court/legal proceedings, to what extent are Irish-trained priests and Irish Orders/institutions either directly culpable of associated with these crimes? Is it my imagination or is it purely anecdotal that there appears to be a preponderance of such individuals/institutions involved? Does anyone have any data on this question?
tony
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Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:58 pm

Post by tony » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:08 am

Irish Examiner - Thursday, December 18, 2008

Astonished and disgusted: Child sex abuse victims pour scorn on Government probe into Cloyne

By Claire O’Sullivan
A STATE investigation into a child sex abuse scandal has been dismissed out of hand by victims who said they were neither informed nor interviewed by the Health Service Executive, which conducted the inquiry at the Government’s request.


One of the victims of abuse in the Cork diocese of Cloyne said she and other victims were never made aware of a Health Service Executive (HSE) report into the mishandling of the abuse allegations.

Yesterday, Minister for Children Barry Andrews said he had asked the HSE to conduct its own investigation in July. He also defended his decision not to publish a separate report carried out by the Church’s National Board for the Safeguarding of Children (NBSC). He was given a copy of this report in July.
Last night, victims of clerical abuse in Cloyne said they were “astonished” to hear of the HSE report and “disgusted” at how the Government was handling the NBSC report.

“The only report that we ever knew about was the Ian Elliott report which he completed in his role at the National Board for the Safeguarding of Children. We all spoke with him, but we were never, ever told that a second report was being conducted into the issue until yesterday. Why are people trying to avoid the contents of the first report being published?”

A spokesman for the Diocese of Cloyne — which is overseen by Bishop John Magee — also expressed “personal confusion” about the existence of a second report.

The NBSC also said it was only aware of its own investigation.

The One in Four organisation said it was never aware of a second report.

Last night, the HSE refused to answer questions from this newspaper about its investigation. Among other things, the HSE was asked when it began its investigation, who conducted it and what were its terms of reference. It refused to answer those questions, instead issuing a short statement, which read: “The HSE has sent its report arising from allegations of child sex abuse in the diocese of Cloyne to the Department of Health and Children. The minister and the department are considering the report.”

Earlier in the day, Mr Andrews denied he had commissioned the NBSC to carry out a report.

“The NBSC were informed of a complaint in the diocese of Cloyne and carried out its own internal investigation. This internal report was not commissioned, paid for or evaluated by the Office of the Minister for Children,” he said.

He was seeking legal advice on the HSE report and hoped to publish it by the end of the week.

Labour party TD Sean Sherlock last night said the minister was taking a “cowardly position”.

“This is an abdication of responsibility. We all hoped this minister would bring some new vigour and courage to the Office of Children and Youth Affairs. Minister Andrews has the option of formally laying the report before the Houses of the Oireachtas thus averting any threat of possible legal action. It is very disappointing that he has refused to do so.”

The NBSC said it is looking at the possible ramifications of publishing its own report by chief executive Ian Elliott.

Questions asked

The Irish Examiner asked the Health Service Executive to answer six key questions in relation to its investigation into claims of child sex abuse in the Diocese of Cloyne:

1 When did the HSE begin its investigation into clerical sex abuse in the diocese of Cloyne?

REPLY: The HSE sent its report to the department, which is considering it.

2 Was this investigation highlighted at the time, either in a press release or through communications with abuse victims or church authorities?

REPLY: The HSE sent its report to the department, which is considering it

3 Who conducted the investigation?

REPLY: The HSE sent its report to the department, which is considering it

4 What were the terms of reference for the investigation?

REPLY: The HSE sent its report to the department, which is considering it

5 Did the HSE conduct its own interviews with abuse victims and church authorities for the purposes of its report?

REPLY: The HSE sent its report to the department, which is considering it

6 Does the HSE report differ in substance from the NBSC report?

REPLY: The HSE sent its report to the department, which is considering it.
tony
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Post by tony » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:03 pm

Pressure builds on bishop after damning report

By Ralph Riegel

Sunday Independent - December 21 2008

PRESSURE is mounting on the Bishop of Cloyne Dr John Magee to "review his position" in light of damning criticisms in a Catholic Church watchdog report over childcare protection systems in his diocese.

The bishop -- a former secretary to Pope John Paul 11 -- has privately told friends and colleagues that he has no intention of retiring. He wants to personally ensure that the report's recommendations are fully implemented.

"There can be no place in the Church, or in wider society, for those who have perpetrated such vile acts and who have betrayed the sacred trust placed in them," the bishop declared.

The report by the National Board for Safeguarding Children (NBSC) was ordered earlier this year into how two cases of alleged clerical sex abuse were dealt with by the Diocese of Cloyne.

There were two clerics involved -- Priest A, who was alleged to have sexually abused a young boy working as an altar server, and Father B, who was alleged to have abused two girls and two boys.

One of the girls claimed she was abused during Confession on a youth retreat.

In the case of Priest A, gardai were only informed by the diocese of the alleged abuser's identity six months after the initial complaint.

In the case of Father B, the report found that the policy of the diocese in its subsequent contacts with the gardai was to give "minimal" information" and that "no information was to be volunteered in respect of any previous complaints involving this priest".

Diocesan officials are now awaiting a decision by Children's Minister Barry Andrews on the publication of a separate but related report by the Health Service Executive.

"Bishop Magee now has to seriously consider his position and decide whether or not he can retain the confidence of the people of Cloyne in the light of these disclosures," said Cork Labour TD Sean Sherlock.

He said the report on childcare procedures in Cloyne was damning and warned that diocesan policy appeared to be to offer minimal information to the gardai about one of the clerics involved while the bishop himself didn't seem to appreciate that the ultimate responsibility for protection rested with him.

- Ralph Riegel
http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 82420.html
lostexpectation
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Post by lostexpectation » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:35 pm

this report sums it up

Cloyne abuse report: one hand washes the other
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2008/dec/ ... the-other/

but im a bit surprised at the reporter saying the most important report is the one made by the independent but still church employed investigator and not a hse one.

not that the hse report seems to exist
test
Patrick Fowke
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:34 pm

Post by Patrick Fowke » Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:56 am

lostexpectation wrote:this report sums it up
Cloyne abuse report: one hand washes the other
As a Catholic, I am ashamed of some of the terrible crimes priests have done, in particular, with young, innocent children. And ashamed, also, the way those in power in the Church have failed to respond to reporting priests to the authorities because what they have committed aren't just very serious sins, but, also, very serious crimes for which they should be sent to court for, and if found guilty, sentenced to prison.

However, saying that, let's not forget that there are many decent priests and clerics who devote their lives to the happiness and betterment of others, including children.

And let's not forget that many of the priests of old in Ireland didn't necessarily become priests because they had a real spiritual vocation for it. But rather because it was a profession. I remember when I thought I had a vocation for the priesthood (I am not one, as I have subsequently, discovered, I don't have such a calling), I contacted a priest. I paid him a visit in his home. He was very nice. Offered me a cup of tea, and asked me whether I played hurley. He then went on to talk about things such as salary and holidays opportunities, and things like that, for the priest. No mention of spiritual vocation. No mention of Christ. No mention, even, of God.

I just think we need to remember that there are priests in the Catholic Church who have little or no vocation. In their misery they turn to terrible types of sin. There is no excuse for what they do. Sin is sin. But what I am trying to suggest is that not all priests are like this. The reverse in fact. There are a lot of priests who have genuine vocations, love what they do, aren't obsessed by original sin but, rather, focus on the positives, and on bringing out the positives in others. And so on.

One such person (actually he wasn't a priest but a Brother) was Francis of Assisi. He for me, sums up, what Christianity is all about. He is one of the most popular Christians of the last 1,000 years or so.

The conversion of Francis of Assisi http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y-TXOsw8Dcc

Francis and the Leper: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xFmtxNYCcjg
washington
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Post by washington » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:51 am

One such person (actually he wasn't a priest but a Brother) was Francis of Assisi. He for me, sums up, what Christianity is all about. He is one of the most popular Christians of the last 1,000 years or so.
So that's nice Patrick...is that what we should tell the victims of clerical rape...'it's ok ...'it wasn't a brother that abused you ...it was a priest'...how lucky can you get?....now go away and talk to the birds!...you'll feel better in no time at all.
As for Bishop Magee...sure he was a complete neophite...what would he have known about procedures and jurisprudence?...sure he only spent about twenty years in the Vatican Curia as secretary to three Popes...doing God's work....
Wake up Patrick... you are in total denial re the systematic protection and and support extended by the Roman Catholic Bishops in this country such as Cumisky, Connell and now Magee, to child rapists under their jurisdiction. Their actions amount to collusion Patrick...in the rape of our children...into whose trust we put them.
Are you a parent Patrick?...somehow intuitively I feel you are not...but I am...and I now regard any priest/parson/vicar...anyone in a clerical garb/collar as an potential threat to my children...now you might think that's unjust, OTT, paranoid...but my attitude is that my children's safety is much more important than the feelings of any priest /parson vicar/bishop/archbishop or Pope.
Patrick Fowke
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Post by Patrick Fowke » Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:57 pm

Washington
washington wrote: So that's nice Patrick...is that what we should tell the victims of clerical rape...'it's ok ...'it wasn't a brother that abused you ...it was a priest'...
I wouldn't saying anything at all about religion. I would adopt the same approach of the Samaratins which is to listen (as opposed to giving advice, and, certainly, NOT bringing up religion at all) and try and offer moral support.

Just as I would try and listen (if asked) and offer the same kind of moral support to anyone who had been raped in any, general, situation (there are non-believing rapists as well).

What I wouldn't do, though, is to suggest that all priests are bad man (I wouldn't even bring up the subject in the first place).

"now go away and talk to the birds!"

- I don't know whether Francis of Assisi talked to birds or not. What I do know, though, is that he looked after lepers. He spent over 20 years, living in poverty, living with and helping, the poor. He, also, challenged the pomp and power of the Church, not by words, but by the type of life that he led.
washington wrote: As for Bishop Magee...sure he was a complete neophite...what would he have known about procedures and jurisprudence?...sure he only spent about twenty years in the Vatican Curia as secretary to three Popes...doing God's work.......
---> : gaol (like I said in my original post: and just like to add: anyone, whether priest, bishop, cardinal or Pope, who commits such as crime, goes (i.e moral necessity) to gaol (same as for anyone else) if they are found guilty in court.
washington wrote: Wake up Patrick... you are in total denial re the systematic protection and and support extended by the Roman Catholic Bishops in this country such as Cumisky, Connell and now Magee, to child rapists under their jurisdiction. Their actions amount to collusion Patrick...in the rape of our children...into whose trust we put them.
With respect, didn't you read what I said about being ashamed about what priests have done - not just priests but the way they have been protected by bishops. As I said before: prison to anyone who breaks the law. Doesn't matter who they are.
I think you are in denial of the fact that not all priests do such acts. And I challenge anyone who makes such generalizations.
washington wrote:
Are you a parent Patrick?

...
No but that doesn't mean I should be gagged from defending innocent men (or women).
washington wrote: ...somehow intuitively I feel you are not...but I am...and I now regard any priest/parson/vicar...anyone in a clerical garb/collar as an potential threat to my children...now you might think that's unjust, OTT, paranoid...but my attitude is that my children's safety is much more important than the feelings of any priest /parson vicar/bishop/archbishop or Pope.
I don't obejct to (I encourage) any parent taking whatever action they think necessary to protect their children. But there is a world of difference between that, and between making generalizations, publically, about certain people - generalizations that affect those who are entirely innocent. This country is now in the thrall of a witchhunt against priests, and witchhunts, whether they are puritans in Salem, Catholic inquisitors of 'heretics', McCarthy politicians, whatever, are unjust and unfair (and in the case of priests, damaging to the good work that many innocent priests do, in particular, those who help with the poor, the marginalized, and so on).
Last edited by Patrick Fowke on Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
lostexpectation
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Post by lostexpectation » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:07 pm

Patrick Fowke wrote:
lostexpectation wrote:this report sums it up
Cloyne abuse report: one hand washes the other
As a Catholic, I am ashamed of some of the terrible crimes priests have done, in particular, with young, innocent children. And ashamed, also, the way those in power in the Church have failed to respond to reporting priests to the authorities because what they have committed aren't just very serious sins, but, also, very serious crimes for which they should be sent to court for, and if found guilty, sentenced to prison.

However, saying that, let's not forget that there are many decent priests and clerics who devote their lives to the happiness and betterment of others, including children.
you have name me priest who spoke out against this they are few and far between, otherwise they were all keeping schtum for their mates.
test
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