Brian, with respect, only I am the one who is prepared to consider both options i.ebrianmmulligan wrote:Patrick,
Nope. I think you may have missed my little joke. Not being able to think of an alternative explanation tends to indicate a closed mind. I did suggest that if you could not think of an alternative explanation that you use one of the many proposed here and subject it to a rigourous analysis using some sort of technique.
1. Entirely natural in origin
2. Divine in origin
You appear to be limited to 1. only. I have tried 1. Spent years considering it (19 years). I know the experience inside-out (because I experienced it - not you - nor do you really know that much about it because of the challenge in trying to communicate such an experience).
You can call me a failure but you can't accuse me of not trying. You haven't even begun to try in order to be able to fail in the first place. Not only that but your response is too sure (discrepancy between your sureness and how little you really know of the experience).
But, anyway, failure does NOT equal "closed mind". It could be (and I am more certain - but never like to be absolute about anything) that it was divine in origin (which is why, I believe, there is no alternative explanation).
No, not suggesting that natural is not divine. But to avoid over-confusing, I meant natural, here, as in purely material and non-metaphysical / non-divine.brianmmulligan wrote:
I personally do not believe that you can divide up phenomena detectable by humans into natural and divine (or metaphysical - are you suggesting that the divine is not natural).
Don't forget that a lot of non-believers (in the divine) do believe in the metaphysical. Both atheists of Eastern, Buddhist tradition, as well as Western atheists of non Buddhist tradition.
So the debate of the metaphysical (in general) is not, necessarily, atheist versus theist.
If you would like to challenge / be challenged over the existence of the metaphysical (in general sense) then we could do that in a separate post if you like (I would). There is just so much to be said on that that don't think I begin to do it justice here and now.
My main point for now is this. Are you prepared to consider at all that the experience could have been divine in origin? Or are you absolute in your belief that it was not?