Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

General discussions

Sugested to do a poll on this so... 2 votes each pick (a) and (b)... So (a1+b2 = tricolor+A)

(a1) Keep the tricolour plus pick option (b)
9
35%
(a2) The tricolour has served its purpose time for a change pick option (b)
1
4%
(b1) No change
7
27%
(b2) Include the scarlet A in the flag ??? (As If)
2
8%
(b3) It should repersent a more modern Ireland
3
12%
(b4) It should repersent our Celtic history
4
15%
 
Total votes: 26
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by aZerogodist » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:39 pm

cosmosforest wrote:
lostexpectation wrote:there is that whole eire nua federal ireland of 4 provinces thing which somewhat interesting,
got an img link?
Image
Four Provinces Flag
Irish tricolourWiki
History of the Irish flag

Note: Wiki-The Newfoundland Tricolour also served as inspiration for the flag of Ireland, which was designed by Thomas F. Meagher, son of Newfoundland-born mayor of Waterford, Ireland, Thomas Meagher, Jr.
Legend holds that the flag was created in St. John's in 1843 by the Roman Catholic Bishop of Newfoundland, Michael Anthony Fleming. The flag is supposedly symbolic of a tradition between local Protestants and Catholics. The annual wood hauls of firewood by sealers, waiting for their vessels to leave the port of St. John's, would get embroiled in a competition to supply wood to the Anglican cathedral, Roman Catholic cathedral, schools and other charity institutions. The Protestant English marked their wood piles with the rose flag of the Natives' Society, while the Catholic Irish used green banners. The threat of violence was such that the Speaker of the House, William Carson, suggested that Bishop Fleming should be enlisted as a peacemaker. Rather than simply preaching sermons, it was decided that Fleming would try to unite the sides.To that end, Bishop Fleming persuaded the two factions to adopt a common flag, tying together the rose and green flags of the two groups with a white handkerchief, which was to symbolize peace. The rose-colour symbolized the Protestant English and was supposed to have been taken from the Tudor rose (which is actually red-coloured and white, not pink), while the green symbolized the Catholic Irish. The white was taken from the Cross of St. Andrew, the patron saint of fishermen and Scotland.
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by SunWorshipper » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:22 am

Lord Supposer wrote:
munsterdevil wrote: The colour green in some aspects seems to be for some reason accepted by both North and South communities, just look at the Irish rugby jerseys and both the North and Republic's soccer jerseys
I think the reason they are both green is that both teams pre-date partition. Northern Ireland football team is run by an organisation that surprisingly still calls itself the Irish Football Association and not the Northern Ireland Football Association as you would think.

As for a new flag you would have to keep the green, white and gold other wise you'd have a lot of very confused Americans at the airport
Personally I would like to see a flag with an animal on it (anything but a snake obviously) because flags with animals on them look cool
Personally, I couldn't give a flying toss as to what sort of flag we fly or of it's colour combinations, but what really gets me is the interpretation of the current masthead. While it is clearly green, white and orange, many still refuse to see the orange part of it and insist on calling it "gold". The GAA very much promote this notion and do not, in fact, acknlowledge that the colour orange exists. Counties like Kerry and Offaly which have orange in their shirts refer to that shade as "ór", meaning "gold". Effectively, there is no Irish, Gaelic or GAA word for the colour orange. I wonder why? Even in the Northern Counties, where Armagh wear a very orange shirt, the GAA call it "saffron".
One can only wonder what these guys ask for when they go into a shop and want to buy an orange. Like, "Can I have a gold, please?" Or, "Could I have one of them saffrons?"
Whatever you do, don't mention the "O" word.
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by cosmosforest » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:26 am

SunWorshipper wrote: Effectively, there is no Irish, Gaelic or GAA word for the colour orange. I wonder why?
Eh..oráiste is the irish for orange!!
Trust me, the modern irish language has words for everything these days.
Van - veain
Wardrobe - cófra or várdrús
Internet - quite literally translated to idirlíon

It's a bastardisation I think, but the rest of this post will go off-topic if I continue.
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by munsterdevil » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:58 pm

Sunworshipper Said:
Armagh wear a very orange shirt, the GAA call it "saffron".
I have a few friends in Armagh and they never call it Saffron, they have no problem in calling it orange though according to some people up there it's 'tangerine red'.

But you are on to something, if you look at various clips of Armagh playing over the years from the 70's to the present you will notice that their jerseys were bright orange til gradually they got darker and darker until they became near red. The colour is still orange but when watching them on TV they could be mistaken for red.

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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by munsterdevil » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:13 pm

@ azerogodist

A Poll might be a good idea, perhaps a few options such as keep the present one, change it to a more modern one etc.

More than likely the present one would win out but it could be interesting nonetheless
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by FXR » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:40 pm

Keep the flag. It will never be changed. What should be changed is that dirge that passes for the National Anthem.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by munsterdevil » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:22 pm

FXR wrote:Keep the flag. It will never be changed. What should be changed is that dirge that passes for the National Anthem.
To be honest I wouldn't be in favour of changing the National Anthem either, lets face it its better than Ireland's Balls!
A lot of anthems across Europe are as militant, like the French and English ones (Don't go by what they sing for God Save the Queen at official events, it's the latter verses that they don't sing that are fairly provocative!
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by SunWorshipper » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:49 am

cosmosforest wrote:
SunWorshipper wrote: Effectively, there is no Irish, Gaelic or GAA word for the colour orange. I wonder why?
Eh..oráiste is the irish for orange!!
Trust me, the modern irish language has words for everything these days.
Van - veain
Wardrobe - cófra or várdrús
Internet - quite literally translated to idirlíon

It's a bastardisation I think, but the rest of this post will go off-topic if I continue.
Yes, oráiste is the Irish word for the orange fruit. But my point was that there is no Irish word for the colour orange. Even in English, the GAA do not seem to accept that there is a colour orange. Surely you have heard that Kerry play in green and gold, even though it is patently obvious that they actually turn out in green and orange?
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by SunWorshipper » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:03 am

munsterdevil wrote:
FXR wrote:Keep the flag. It will never be changed. What should be changed is that dirge that passes for the National Anthem.
To be honest I wouldn't be in favour of changing the National Anthem either, lets face it its better than Ireland's Balls!
A lot of anthems across Europe are as militant, like the French and English ones (Don't go by what they sing for God Save the Queen at official events, it's the latter verses that they don't sing that are fairly provocative!
Oh I would gladly dump it because it's such a load of hypocritical nonsense.
Never mind the English and the French, they have spent centuries conquering other nations and are nuclear armed and ready for war. We have never attacked anyone and consider ourselves to be a neutral nation. Whether we are right or wrong, or whether the French and British are right or wrong is another topic but how we can justify standing up to sing a war-mongering piece of nonsensical rubbish that supposedly defines us is anathema to me.
I gave up subscribing to it roughly around the same time that I realised the great guy in the sky was just a fairy, and that was a long time ago.
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Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Post by SunWorshipper » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:27 am

cosmosforest wrote:
SunWorshipper wrote: Effectively, there is no Irish, Gaelic or GAA word for the colour orange. I wonder why?
Eh..oráiste is the irish for orange!!
Trust me, the modern irish language has words for everything these days.
Van - veain
Wardrobe - cófra or várdrús
Internet - quite literally translated to idirlíon

It's a bastardisation I think, but the rest of this post will go off-topic if I continue.
Interesting thing about those two words is that the letter "v" does not exist in the Irish language.
That clown politician who acts as minister for Irish can't even spell his own name, which happens to be "ó Caoimh", pronounced "o kweev". At one stage he decided to drop the "ó" so that alphabetical order would get him higher up on the ballot paper and it is a fact that candidates who appear higher on the ballot paper get more votes. He didn't get away with that. Then he changed the spelling of his own name to include a letter that doesn't exist in his own language, so that people would better be able to get a phonetic grip on his totem pole. Is it any wonder that we spend about 13 years going to school in this country, prior to third level, and encounter the Irish language every day, yet we can't speak it, can't read it and sure as hell don't understand it?
I know you didn't want to go off topic and I apologise, but I just had to have this little rant.
And I know you know that the Irish alphabet has only got 18 letters in it and "v" is not one of them.
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