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Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:41 am
by aZerogodist
1st I'm looking for more information on the Irish Flag, and all the flags before it.

2nd Really what does the Irish flag state:
-The official wording is "Peace between the Orangemen and the Irishmen"
-Or "Peace between the "Protestant and the Catholics"

So our flag state peace between two religions !!!!
So our flag states that our religions are a source for violence.
Every time you see the flag it is a testament to the horror of religion. Anytime an Irish person says religion is peace and brings out the good/best in people -well just point at the flag. It wasn't religion that brought the two sides to peace, it was rational people sick of the death. It is this same rational thinking that many Atheist share; sick of all the death due to the religions.

Wouldn't the flag be better as "religion" with a big X through it.
Or XX
"Don't forget both these religions where brought to Ireland and not part of the original belief system"

Or should the flag say "Religion=Bad"

I realise that there is a bit more to it than just religion, but it is the sole contributing factor, after the English "Catholic-Protestant war".

So any good links, ideas, input, disagreement, information, as I would like to make a video about this.
rgds. Tom

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:17 pm
by Caca
Apparently it was originally a blue flag, St. Patrick's blue. I remember being taught that in primary school...

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:50 pm
by munsterdevil
I cannot see a change from the tricolour for a long time, only in the case of a united Ireland which I also cannot see happening, at least in my lifetime

If there ever is a united Ireland the flag will have to change from the tricolour, but presumably there will still be green and orange in it, and maybe red for Ulster and the cross of St. Patrick.

The colour green in some aspects seems to be for some reason accepted by both North and South communities, just look at the Irish rugby jerseys and both the North and Republic's soccer jerseys

My point is the majority of people (myself included) would not want a change from the current national flag

Whilst I accept the conflict is largely a religious one, the official meaning of the flag is peace between Nationalism and Unionism, and the flag was mainly inspired by the French Revolution, not religion. I believe it was first unveiled by Thomas Meagher leader of the Young Irelanders in 1848

Best of luck with making the film, there is heaps of material out there to make it interesting

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:28 pm
by ctr
munsterdevil wrote:I believe it was first unveiled by Thomas Meagher leader of the Young Irelanders in 1848
Indeed it was in my home City of Waterford not far from where I now type.

We cannot or should not be attempting to purge our history or culture of all things derived from religion but should be attempting to gain a modern secular republic and educuate the masses of their delusions.

Did not even Dawkins himself say grace while at Oxford following traditions? :wink:

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:37 pm
by lostexpectation
well the other flag is the dark blue one with the harp on it, the presidential flag

what ye think of of harps, it seems to associated with UK + IRELAND royalty which may be no good.

what was the symbol of for ireland when it was first united or at least the first confederation?

the french

The colours represent those of Paris (blue and red), combined with that of the Bourbon Dynasty (white), though they are usually associated with liberty, equality, and fraternity, the ideals of the French Revolution.

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:54 am
by Superstitious Fool
I don't think the green and orange are about religion. They have more to do with the allegiances inherited from the pre-Elizabethan Irish and from the planters. The 1916 Proclamation puts it like this: "The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past."

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:36 am
by Alexis
Superstitious Fool:

The 1916 Proclamation puts it like this: "The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past."

Why then, did we (most of us Irish) end up being indoctrinated by Rome?

You can have any colour you like, so long as it black ... any religion, so long as it is Roman Catholicism...

What's all that (dogma) got to do with being Irish?

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:22 pm
by Lord Supposer
munsterdevil wrote: The colour green in some aspects seems to be for some reason accepted by both North and South communities, just look at the Irish rugby jerseys and both the North and Republic's soccer jerseys
I think the reason they are both green is that both teams pre-date partition. Northern Ireland football team is run by an organisation that surprisingly still calls itself the Irish Football Association and not the Northern Ireland Football Association as you would think.

As for a new flag you would have to keep the green, white and gold other wise you'd have a lot of very confused Americans at the airport
Personally I would like to see a flag with an animal on it (anything but a snake obviously) because flags with animals on them look cool

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:35 pm
by munsterdevil
Lord Supposer Wrote:
Personally I would like to see a flag with an animal on it (anything but a snake obviously) because flags with animals on them look cool
How about Mary Harney or Brian Cowen, or are they classed as snakes at this stage?

Re: Should we change the Irish flag, what does it really mean.

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:05 pm
by Lord Supposer
Well you wouldn't want either of them climbing up your trouser leg so I guess they are.