Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

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lawlorlicious
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Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by lawlorlicious » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:08 pm

I don't know if this has been discussed before but it's just a thought that came to me the other day: is baptising babies technically a breach of the baby's right to freedom of religion? Obviously the baby has no ability to choose a religion for itself at that age, but if the parents force him/her to join a religion by baptising him/her, is that a breach of human rights?
lostexpectation
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Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by lostexpectation » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:56 pm

lawlorlicious wrote:I don't know if this has been discussed before but it's just a thought that came to me the other day: is baptising babies technically a breach of the baby's right to freedom of religion? Obviously the baby has no ability to choose a religion for itself at that age, but if the parents force him/her to join a religion by baptising him/her, is that a breach of human rights?
not in ireland certainly with our balance towards the family - parents - mother and the child, but hey maybe we should look at it from outside ireland.
test
cosmosforest
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Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by cosmosforest » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:04 am

lawlorlicious wrote:I don't know if this has been discussed before but it's just a thought that came to me the other day: is baptising babies technically a breach of the baby's right to freedom of religion? Obviously the baby has no ability to choose a religion for itself at that age, but if the parents force him/her to join a religion by baptising him/her, is that a breach of human rights?
bear in mind that the parents/guardians do have the power to make decisions on behalf of minors in their care.
personally, i believe that the child should be educated on all aspects of all religions, and atheism and agnosticism, before making an informed decision, and i disagree with newborn kids being baptised, but it ultimately is up to the parents/guardians as to how to raise the children.

legally, i don't think it is, but don't quote me on this (on one count of now knowing the law, and one count of drunkeness).
personally, it shouldn't be allowed until age 16 or so.
"Only the dead have seen the end of war"
Plato
lostexpectation
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Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by lostexpectation » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:07 pm

well they'll say baptism is just baptism they get the chance to confirm at 12
test
lawlorlicious
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Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by lawlorlicious » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:18 pm

lostexpectation wrote:well they'll say baptism is just baptism they get the chance to confirm at 12
But if you don't get confirmed you're still a member of the church as long as you were baptised.
Scorpio
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Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by Scorpio » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:35 pm

The better option would be to educate children on ALL aspects of EVERY religion. Let them be aware of the truth, and the lack of it in some cases. Education is the key. telling children that the bible is correct and sohuld not be questioned is a sick, very sick way of bringing up kids...
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. - Anonymous
mkaobrih
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Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by mkaobrih » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:10 pm

lostexpectation wrote:well they'll say baptism is just baptism they get the chance to confirm at 12
A child of 12 will do what ever he/she is expected to do by their parents and peers and is in no way responsible for their actions - especially as they are given no other information and they stands to loose some bucks if they don’t do it. Conformation is a nice little money earner.
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
lawlorlicious
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Location: Mullingar

Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by lawlorlicious » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:57 pm

mkaobrih wrote:
lostexpectation wrote:well they'll say baptism is just baptism they get the chance to confirm at 12
A child of 12 will do what ever he/she is expected to do by their parents and peers and is in no way responsible for their actions - especially as they are given no other information and they stands to loose some bucks if they don’t do it. Conformation is a nice little money earner.
I see what you did there! :lol:

But yeah, I don't see why a child that age wouldn't want to go through a short ceremony for the prospect of a few hundred quid!
IrishKnight
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Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by IrishKnight » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:39 am

As a debater, rights are a very hard thing to talk about. Most people think "Oh I have the right to this or that" but why you ask yourself were that right comes from most people fail. There is only true right and that is the right to life. Everything else is a plus...

To say baptising a child is a breach of their human rights, is the same as saying dressing your child in a silly Christmas outfit is a breach of their right to dignity!
cosmosforest
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Re: Is baptising babies a breach of human rights?

Post by cosmosforest » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:06 pm

mkaobrih wrote:
lostexpectation wrote:well they'll say baptism is just baptism they get the chance to confirm at 12
A child of 12 will do what ever he/she is expected to do by their parents and peers and is in no way responsible for their actions - especially as they are given no other information and they stands to loose some bucks if they don’t do it. Conformation is a nice little money earner.

That's basically the only reason i 'conformed' - if i didn't, i was gonna get a bollicking!!!
It was expected of me by my immediate family, extended family, and friends and teachers in school - wasn't brave enough to do the right thing back then
"Only the dead have seen the end of war"
Plato
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