i am a evangelical christian

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Adonai88
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:45 pm

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Adonai88 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:54 pm

Neil wrote: You're using God as a default argument. If science fails to explain something, your natural reaction is that God did it. It really is a textbook example of the God of the gaps argument.

P.S. if you're going to respond to this, please use your brain, not your heart.
you say in other words that i use the " god in the gap " argument.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... _gaps.html

Many skeptics believe that all arguments for the existence of God fall into the God of the gaps variety. According to this premise, one would expect these arguments to become fewer in number as scientists make more discoveries and learn more about our world. In reality, evidence continues to accumulate suggesting that the universe was designed by an intelligent agent. The evidence suggesting that the universe and its physical laws were designed continues to accumulate at a rapid rate.
Adonai88
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:45 pm

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Adonai88 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:57 pm

Hobbesian World View wrote:So you admit distorting the meaning of the word "heart". Isnt that dishonest? This is exactly the kind of trickery of the salesman I referred to already.

The reality is the heart is just a lump of tissue in the chest that pumps blood. If you want to talk about some other aspect of the human being, why dont you use an accurate word for it? Maybe because you dont know what your talking about? Please specify what you wanted to refer to, when you dishonestly tried to trick us by twisting the word heart.

It seems to me, that christians, still cling to the primitive and inaccurate belief that emotions reside in the human heart. This is not true, emotions are hormonal changes in the brain.
You have no point here, and the argument, i am distorting the meaning of the word heart, is at least ridiculous. If you do not have enough brain to understand the applied meaning of the word, i'm sorry, but i cannot do anything for you.
Adonai88
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:45 pm

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Adonai88 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:01 pm

i make it easy for you, guys.

189.71.180.142

thats my ip number. if someone wants to check.....

btw. its the first time, i post at this board. :wink:
FXR
Posts: 3176
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by FXR » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:52 pm

Adonai88 wrote:
thats a stupid and brainless assertion.
You ought to watch your mouth when you're around here.
What really falls into the category of stupid and brainless is swallowing wholesale, based on no more than the accident of where you happen to have been born and the childhood indoctrination of that locale, that because we don't know everything about an event 13.5 billion years ago it follows that a Jewish zombie who was his own son got himself nailed to two planks to compensate for a rib woman being conned by a talking snake into robbing an apple.
Now that really stupid and brainless.
Adonai88 wrote: the gospel is spread around the world already 2 thousand years. I don't think it happened all this time based on modern marketing methods, don't you think ?
No it wasn’t originally spread by modern marketing methods nor anything so civilised. It was forced on people by brainwashing, lies, torture, decree, war, and slaughter. It's maintained by a whole legion of liars, zealots, charlatans and flocks of the deluded, the ignorant, the unquestioning and the insecure.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
Neil
Posts: 97
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Location: Dublin

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Neil » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:11 pm

Adonai88 wrote:you say in other words that i use the " god in the gap " argument.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... _gaps.html

Many skeptics believe that all arguments for the existence of God fall into the God of the gaps variety. According to this premise, one would expect these arguments to become fewer in number as scientists make more discoveries and learn more about our world. In reality, evidence continues to accumulate suggesting that the universe was designed by an intelligent agent. The evidence suggesting that the universe and its physical laws were designed continues to accumulate at a rapid rate.
That's a terrible rebuttal. It's simply a reiteration of a reiteration. Your arguments for God really are God of the gaps arguments, even if other people's sometimes aren't.

In any case, I didn't just state that your argument was a Gaps argument, I explained why it was so in simple terms, but you just ignored that.

And this, by the way:

"The evidence suggesting that the universe and its physical laws were designed continues to accumulate at a rapid rate."

Is a lie. There's no evidence to suggest that the universe was designed. It just looks that way to someone with no imagination. That's called the argument from design and has been repeatedly dismissed by scientists for roughly the last 150 years (Darwin again, the mischievous devil). Do yourself a favour and catch up.

[post edited about 500 million times]
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it."
- Terry Pratchett
Hobbesian World View
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:42 pm

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Hobbesian World View » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:16 pm

adonai88 wrote:In reality, nobody will find and accept God based only on rational reasons. Its in essence a decision of the heart
How does a heart make a decision? Two beats for "convert", one beat for "dont convert". Youre talking rubbish and youve been caught.
Hobbesian World View
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:42 pm

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Hobbesian World View » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:19 pm

Adonai88 wrote:189.71.180.142

thats my ip number. if someone wants to check
So youre in Brazil. Why dont you live in your own country? Is it easier to fool the poor people of Brazil than the Swiss. Youre like a predator feeding off the poor of the world.
bockedy
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:18 pm

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by bockedy » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:42 pm

Adonai88 wrote: you might explain, what in your intent, it has to do with the BigBang, and beginning of the universe ?
You posted pseudo-scientific nonsense from some awful apologist website that had a deeply flawed understanding of physics. You asserted by means of your latest cut and paste from that travesty that matter cannot be created from nothing. Wrong. Both phenomena I mentioned involve the creation of matter out of nothing. I am not a professional physicist or scientist myself, but I do have a science degree and I am not pulling these out of my ass. Any physicists reading this care to comment? There are probably other examples to enlighten you with.

Just think: yesterday you were ignorant that matter can be created out of nothing, with no god involved. Feel a little less secure now about the big bang requiring a god?

As for the big bang and fine tuning: we do not yet have a full explanation. But nothing in principle will stop science from getting closer and closer, despite your earlier claim that it is impossible to have a naturalistic explanation for the big bang. I hardly have to mention string theory to you? You can keep retreating back to the god of the gaps argument if you like. But when the Nobel prize is awarded to the scientist that figures it out, you will be in a very lonely place indeed, living in a universe that a god didn't create, and that a god doesn't intervene in, that is, a universe in which the existence of a god or gods is an unnecessary postulate, even for you.
May Ea smite thee with the might of his fist!
bockedy
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:18 pm

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by bockedy » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:00 pm

I think we need to start tallying the general arguments being used by adonai88 by reference to the "Hundreds of proofs of God's Existence" page: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm (a very funny page by the way for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. I can hardly make it past the first fifty without passing out from laughter) We can play it like bingo.

Let me just start off with the first few:

2. COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. FIRST CAUSE ARGUMENT (I)
(1) If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
(2) I say the universe must have a cause.
(3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

6. ARGUMENT FROM DESIGN, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
(2) Only God could have made them so complex.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

13. ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE
(1) [arbitrary passage from OT]
(2) [arbitrary passage from NT]
(3) Therefore, God exists.

25. ARGUMENT FROM INTERNET AUTHORITY
(1) There is a website that successfully argues for the existence of God.
(2) Here is the URL.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

51. ARGUMENT FROM INFINITE REGRESS, a.k.a. FIRST CAUSE ARGUMENT (II)
(1) Ask atheists what caused the Big Bang.
(2) Regardless of their answer, ask how they know this.
(3) Continue process until the atheist admits he doesn't know the answer to one of your questions.
(4) You win!
(5) Therefore, God exists.

I am waiting to see this one come up:

21. ARGUMENT FROM ECONOMY
(1) God exists, you bastards!
(2) Therefore, God exists.

and it's getting close to this one:

58. ARGUMENT FROM ARGUMENTATION
(1) God exists.
(2) [Atheist's counterargument]
(3) Yes he does.
(4) [Atheist's counterargument]
(5) Yes he does!
(6) [Atheist's counterargument]
(7) YES HE DOES!!!
(8) [Atheist gives up and goes home.]
(9) Therefore, God exists.
May Ea smite thee with the might of his fist!
Hobbesian World View
Posts: 188
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:42 pm

Re: i am a evangelical christian

Post by Hobbesian World View » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:20 pm

[59]The Faith Argument
Belief in God is not a rational decision. Its a decision of the heart.
Therefore God must exist.

[60]Divine Revelation Argument
Jesus spoke to me
Therefore he must exist.

[61]The Heretic Argument
Non believers are heretics or possessed by Satan
Therefore God must exist.

[62]The Missionary Argument
Going to developing countries and offering aid to poor people, if they come to your church, makes you feel like a good person.
Therefore God must exist.
Last edited by Hobbesian World View on Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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