Count Me Out.ie

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Beebub
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Count Me Out.ie

Post by Beebub » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:48 pm

Hi,

I'm sorry if I'm repeating or duplicating a thread. However, I logged on to http://www.countmeout.ie, went through the steps involved and wrote a letter with the necessary form to Diarmuid Martin. In the letter I made i patently clear why I wanted to leave.

I received a response today in the post saying that it is the practice of the archdiocese church to meet anyone who wishes to cease membership of the catholic church.I e-mailed the Rev. who wrote to me saying that I didn't wnat to meet him and requested that he respect me wishes to cease membership.

Anyone else go through this process and anyone get a response like mine? If so what happened next. Unbelievable! It reminds me of an episode of Friends where Ross wanted to leave the gym and the person who processed this was a good looking woman. Maybe the Reverend is secretly a good looking woman!
adamd164
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by adamd164 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:06 pm

All I can offer is that it cannot be a pre-requiste for getting the defection per se, since I got one without doing so.
Gar
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Gar » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:55 am

I got a response like that, I never arranged a meeting as I was working at the time and it didn't seem worth it to take a day of work for.. Now that I'm unemployed I'm going to send the letter again and go to the meeting (I'm curious to see how ridiculously huge the "palace" is) I'll report on my progress when I get around to doing it !
Conor
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Conor » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:59 pm

Today’s Irish Times had the following article on Count Me Out:

Ungodly intentions

OCCASIONALLY, SHOULD the topic arise, I will describe myself as a card-carrying atheist. It’s rubbish, of course. Not the atheist bit – I have no more belief in God than you believe you’ll wake up tomorrow on Mars – but I have no card to prove it. The only evidence I have are regular bouts of self-righteousness and the groans that form deep in my throat every time I see a picture of someone in Rathkeale praying to a tree stump, writes SHANE HEGARTY

I’m down as an atheist in the census, on some document hidden away in a filing cabinet in the Central Statistics Office. Or, at least, I’m down as having “no religion”, which is true in one sense, but untrue in another. Because in a filing cabinet in an office of the Dublin diocese, I’m down as being one of theirs. If I carry a card of any sort, then, it’s as a member of the Catholic Church. However, if I somehow turn out to be wrong in my sincerely held disbeliefs and I do end up, upon death, being greeted by a personal God with a guest list that does not include my name, I doubt it’ll act as a get-out-of-hell-free card.

So, I’ve watched with interest the attention paid to CountMeOut.ie – the website set up to help anyone who wants to revoke their membership of the Catholic Church. It’s a simple site, and the idea equally so. “For many who no longer practise,” it says, “remaining ‘lapsed’ is not sufficient; a clean break is needed.” That it’s run by three people who variously described themselves as an agnostic, an athiest and a lapsed Catholic (although surely no longer) has helped soften its militancy a touch. It is not, it pointed out during the week, associated with Atheist Ireland, yet it is almost as if it is saying: “Atheism: now with less Dawkins.” As of yesterday, it claimed that over 1,300 people have used the site to complete a Declaration of Defection form. You can’t, obviously, be unbaptised, but you can be formally recognised as having defected. It’s nice wording, that. Two letters away from being a commentary on the individual’s personality. And it has “who’ll win the most souls” overtones for those who like their religion in old-style battlefield terms.

Once the initial flurry of interest calms, though, it will be sure to slow down a bit, because one of the very things the site identifies – that people remain members of a church they never asked to join – is the very reason that church will continue to have many members for years to come.

Ireland remains a Catholic nation, by and large, but how many of those are not so much lapsed Catholics, but socialised Catholics? They are people who don’t feel part of the church, yet are not only members but occasional participants because that is what offers the path of least resistance through our society.

Obviously, most religious affiliation comes through socialisation. No one is born Catholic or Protestant or Muslim or Jewish. You just happen to be born into a family whose roots are in a community that at some point in the past affiliated themselves to one of those religions. After that, it becomes far more difficult, and far too much hassle, to opt out than to stay in.

In Ireland, many of us live our lives to the long beat of a religious drum. Baptism, first communion, confirmation, marriage, baptism of our children, their various religious landmarks and finally, a church funeral. A few break away from this routine and go their own way. Most do not. Many of those who stay in step do so for reasons that have little to do with belief: family expectations; doing it because their spouse wants to; getting their kids into a school. Or because this is simply what they are used to, that’s what happens here.

In Ireland now, socialisation is the firm basis for much of the soft religious affiliation that allows the Catholic Church to justifiably claim to represent a vast proportion of the population. If those early rituals were to be removed – if, most obviously, the majority of schools were no longer infused with a religious ethos – that impetrative would be diluted significantly, and the steps would gradually fall away.

Fewer people would be co-opted on to that ladder from birth and the strange charade that so many Irish believers and non-believers currently feel compelled to engage in wouldn’t be necessary. And fewer would ultimately need to turn to a website that points them to the small print of how to revoke their membership.
lostexpectation
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by lostexpectation » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:29 pm

http://www.countmeout.ie/responses/txt/email180709.txt

defection with 1 email from cc to anglican

probably not be so easy to go atheist
test
Beebub
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Beebub » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:19 pm

I e-mailed the Reverend who wrote to me saying that I didn't want ot meet him and asking him to respect my wishes. He e-mailed back saying that he needed the fact that I didn't want to meet him in writing and that a signature at the end of the e-mail I sent him would do. So that's now in the post with a request for confirmation. I'll let you know how I get on.
lostexpectation
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by lostexpectation » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:21 pm

Beebub wrote:I e-mailed the Reverend who wrote to me saying that I didn't want ot meet him and asking him to respect my wishes. He e-mailed back saying that he needed the fact that I didn't want to meet him in writing and that a signature at the end of the e-mail I sent him would do. So that's now in the post with a request for confirmation. I'll let you know how I get on.
did you mean an email wouldn't do? so you sent him another letter?
test
Beebub
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Beebub » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:40 pm

Yes. He said that he needed my signature attached to my request not to meet him. So I printed off my e-mail to him asking not to meet him, signed it and posted it.
FXR
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by FXR » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:10 am

The number of defections has been climbing constantly. It's now gone over sixteen hundred. If it keeps up at this rate there won't be any Catholics left. :roll: If the rate of defections surpasses the rate of baptisms the CCL will be in negative equity!
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
Beebub
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Beebub » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:39 pm

The number of defections has been climbing constantly. It's now gone over sixteen hundred.
Yes except, where is this figure coming from? Is it the site's tally? Is so, then it can't be anywhere near that high. For example, I checked it out having read the article in the Sunday Times on my home laptop. I filled in my details and clicked to see my populated letter and the declaration. Would that have been counted as one defection? Because I have no printer at home and so did nothing about it until I got to work. I then repeated the process and printed it off. How many of the 1,600 are duplicates like mine?

I then signed it, got it witnessed and posted it. How many of the 1,600 that weren't duplicates actually went this far? Not all I imagine.

I then received a letter from the Dublin Archdiocese as mentioned above. The exact same letter to another defectee is on the countmeout.ie website. The signator was even the same so he simply changed the addressee on the letter when writing to me. How many people who receive this letter take it further as I did and insist that they don't want to meet him or indeed agree to do so? Not all I imagine.

I then had to confirm in writing to him that I didn't want to meet him, which I did and posted it. How many will just not bother at this point? Some, I imagine.

So while it's great that so far 1,600 defection letters have been populated on the site, the number of those that have thus far resulted in actual defections must be far less.
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