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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:46 pm
by haddockman
haddockman wrote:I sent a fresh request to Wexford still awaiting a response.
I got confirmation of my defection last week from Ferns.

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:05 pm
by Ether
nozzferrahhtoo wrote:
Ether wrote:I bet i get hammered for this but i dont see the purpose in countmeout.

I see no reason to officially return my membership card to the local priest as that in itself gives them some creditably. as if it was real to start. When i stopped believing in santa i didn’t log on to the work shop elves website to cancel my subscription :?
I know what you are saying and hopefully I can give you an impression of why I think it is the wrong approach to the thinking.

Your subscription to Santa is not USED by anyone so there is indeed no reason to return it. This however is not so of your subscription to the church.

When our elected officials are deciding policy, representatives from different groups stand before them. The FIRST THING every politician asks himself before anything else is ever mentioned is “how many voters is this representative here in the name of."

When an Irish Bishop petitions a politician and that Bishops church has you on their books, then you ARE one of that number of voters the Bishop can claim to represent. He is petitioning that politician in YOUR name and you are complicit in this by your inaction to remove yourself.

There are people going before our government every day claiming to speak on YOUR behalf… and you can see no reason to “cancel your subscription”?
I’m against anything that gives them credence, including acknowledging the magic water split on my head had any other effect then to make a child, incapable of language or understanding, slightly damp and a bit cranky.
Renouncing them officially is to admit it had an effect, one that needs to be ‘fixed’. To me, going through any official church system is just telling them they have relevance.
Combating the church in this manor is for the individual and I understand. But I assume the church would not provide figures of how many people actually do this? And as such it becomes irrelevant to whatever political power they wield.
In effect it’s just one finger up to guy in a Costume sitting in an office somewhere, someone you may never know, and never know the reaction of, and just how fast that reaction fades from their minds never to return.
The only real fight is through education and activism. I still fail to see an ultimate purpose other than people maybe rightly pissed off at the church doing anything in their name. Even if ‘in your name’ is in reality a fuzzy idea of church of the masses mixed with their own messed up ideology.
My ideal would be to ignore these intuitions rituals out of existence and ridicule them every opportunity you get.
As for my santa statement; well i suppose what I was getting is that santa will never know i cancelled my santasavers subscription and neither will the skyfairy.

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:21 pm
by nozzferrahhtoo
Ether wrote:Renouncing them officially is to admit it had an effect, one that needs to be ‘fixed’.
But as I said it DOES have an effect and it IS one that needs to be “fixed”.

It has the effect of adding you to the numbers they can claim to be speaking for when they go before those in our halls of power. It has the effect that they can claim to speak in YOUR name when doing so. It has the effect of making you complicit in every change they successfully have implemented in your name.

Do not get me wrong, I wholeheartedly appreciate the sentiment of not wanting to admit they have had an effect.

However refusing to admit something does not mean it has not occurred nor does it make it go away.

Would that it could huh? :) Would that it could.

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:31 pm
by GazUtd
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: It has the effect of adding you to the numbers they can claim to be speaking for when they go before those in our halls of power.
But don't our halls of power take numbers like this from the census? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, for a change.

I done all the silly stuff when I was young (correction; my parents made me do it) but I haven't considered myself catholic for years. I honestly couldn't be arsed going through all the rigmarole of removing my name from pieces of paper. Besides it came in handy when I got married 2 years ago. The wife really wanted a church wedding (even though she isn't religious, just very afraid of her parents) and I agreed so it was handy to have it on paper that I was a member of the funny farm.

I did agree with the wife though that it was only on the condition that any kids wouldn't be baptised or christened or whatever they're calling it these days. Our 1st is due at the end of the year and I am REALLY looking forward to the conversations afterwards :twisted:

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:41 pm
by Ygern
The truth of the matter is that no-one has any guarantee that those who have defected successfully are in fact genuinely removed from the numbers the Church likes to cite.

But, *ahem* It can't be done anymore anyway: http://www.countmeout.ie/suspension/

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:25 pm
by Rogan
Ygern wrote:The truth of the matter is that no-one has any guarantee that those who have defected successfully are in fact genuinely removed from the numbers the Church likes to cite.
Do you think there's any way of finding out for sure? I'm contemplating following the matter up with the Dublin Archdiocese, who I originally made the act of defecion through. I'd like to get confirmation on whether or not my defection stands, if I found out that it doesn't, it will serve as a warning to others who are considering baptising their children against their will.

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:13 am
by nozzferrahhtoo
GazUtd wrote:But don't our halls of power take numbers like this from the census? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, for a change.
Ygern wrote:The truth of the matter is that no-one has any guarantee that those who have defected successfully are in fact genuinely removed from the numbers the Church likes to cite.
Yes you are both not only probably right, but very likely right, in what you say. However I come from a school of thought that it is best to do the right things and have it turn out to be ineffective than do nothing at all and be ineffective by default. :)

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:25 am
by MyloD
Perhaps Atheist Ireland could take a out a full page ad in the Times and Independent to highlight this issue. Something along the lines of "Don't believe the figures you hear from the Church - We're all atheists and they won't let us leave..."

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:11 am
by GazUtd
MyloD wrote:Perhaps Atheist Ireland could take a out a full page ad in the Times and Independent to highlight this issue. Something along the lines of "Don't believe the figures you hear from the Church - We're all atheists and they won't let us leave..."
Or....


"Don't believe the figures you hear from the Church..... That's because they're lying bastards."
:wink:

Re: Count Me Out.ie

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:46 am
by Tulip1
Or a different approach is to beat them with their own stick:

It is against the fundamental right of freedom of religion.