Count Me Out.ie

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Ygern
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Ygern » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:09 am

Nozz, I'm not saying that people shouldn't do it; only that the value is to the person doing it and their immediate community who know of it. IN other words, it is a symbolic gesture, although it can be a very powerful one.

I don't know if anyone can tell us how exactly the Church arrives at its "Members" figure. It likes to talk about billions so the fact that Cloyne diocese might be 1000 minus 3 is probably discounted as negligible. Even if every single one of the 12007 people who downloaded the Count Me Out form actually pursued their defection process successfully to the end (which we know is not the case) it still might not be reflected in the numbers the Catholic Church claims for Ireland.

However, even with the official defection process suspended, technically any self-declared atheist has given the Church sufficient grounds for excommunication so... perhaps that's a route to investigate. Of course excommunication doesn't render you a non-Catholic. It merely means you're a Catholic who's been damned to hell. :roll:
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:54 pm

Ygern wrote:It likes to talk about billions so the fact that Cloyne diocese might be 1000 minus 3 is probably discounted as negligible.
Again I am not unsympathetic to this view and you are again likely right and my way is a silly way to go about it. It is just my mind does not operate that way nor do the choices I myself make. I can only talk about me here.

I still turn the tap off when I am brushing my teeth rather than leaving it running as I scrub. I turn off the light when I leave the room….

I do so regardless of the fact that given millions of people do not bother and happily leave lights on, taps on, while going out and washing their SUV car for 30 minutes with a power hose all mean that my actions are “negligible” in regards to climate chance and environmental friendliness I still know it is the right thing to do and I still know the harm being caused is not being caused in my name.

Negligible or not, it is the right thing to do in both cases and there are too many area in our discourse where we know that if everyone who felt their actions were individually negligible got together and did that action together... the result would be anything BUT negligible. That is one of lifes most depressing facts for me I feel... that so many people do not feel moved to do the right thing, merely because they see no significance in the action when it stands alone.
Beebub
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Beebub » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:31 pm

The whole thing is pathetic and laughable. Are they that threatened by 12007 downloaded forms from countmeout.ie? In all liklihood, as it's canon law which has been ammended with the right to defect having been removed, it will mean that you could never defect in the first place. A bit like papal infallibility. One of them once decided that no only was he infallible, but that all his predecessors were too.

Pathetic!
Bik
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Bik » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:43 pm

Beebub wrote:In all liklihood, as it's canon law which has been ammended with the right to defect having been removed, it will mean that you could never defect in the first place.
!
Well they won't be getting back the ammended baptism cert and letter confirming my defection.
It's framed and on my wall :D
"Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion." Superintendent Chalmers
bipedalhumanoid
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:17 pm

Ygern wrote: However, even with the official defection process suspended, technically any self-declared atheist has given the Church sufficient grounds for excommunication so... perhaps that's a route to investigate. Of course excommunication doesn't render you a non-Catholic. It merely means you're a Catholic who's been damned to hell. :roll:
It is notoriously difficult to get excommunicated from the catholic church unless you are a high profile person of some kind. A politician or actor can get excommunicated just by publicly supporting abortion. The rest of us have to invent some way of becoming a major pain in the arse to the church.
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
Reilly616
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Reilly616 » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:56 pm

Ether wrote:I bet i get hammered for this but i dont see the purpose in countmeout. I was baptised and had my communion (for the cash of course) but i don’t feel I can be officially part of anything that is contingent upon my belief in it and a certain state of mind ie faith. Religion is a an enormous machine built on a house of cards which in turn is floating on air and theology is the science of nothing. So (in my head – saying this to avoid the aforementioned hammering)I cant be part of something(in a real measurable way) that has no basis in my reality and as I do not accept god(s) there is nothing to compel/force me to stay. I see no reason to officially return my membership card to the local priest as that in itself gives them some creditably. as if it was real to start. When i stopped believing in santa i didn’t log on to the work shop elves website to cancel my subscription :?
No need for hammering; I think most people here feel that way. The main reason for officially defecting is to stop yourself being counted in their figures. The church claims a certain following, which is clearly grossly exaggerated, as many of their flock are no longer actually catholics. Also, officially defecting gives an easy way of giving an idea of the change in religious beliefs in society. Obviously, next years census will also acomplish this however.
lostexpectation
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by lostexpectation » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:36 am

countmeout seem stuck are believing what the church say, do it the data protection way
http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.as ... nuary+2007
...it is my understanding that the data could not be deleted from the Register as it is essential for the administration of Church affairs to maintain a register of all the people who have been baptised. Indeed it is of course a factual record of an event that happened. However the proposed noting of the register would more than comply with Section 6 of the Data Protection Acts, 1988 and 2003.
write to the arch diocese you were baptised in give the details, cite the law and pro-actively opt out, you have right to rectification or erasure and blocking. http://www.dataprotection.ie/ViewDoc.as ... tID=16&m=r

the church and government use the census numbers for issues that effect us all one can campaign for people to make sure they filled the form out correctly as 'no religion' but outcome of these small area studies of school patronage change http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0803/education.pdf and the lobbying in regard to the education bill AI are now doing, will have more effect then the Census.
test
ExperienceHunt
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by ExperienceHunt » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:51 am

spam spam spam spam
chemicals
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by chemicals » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:09 am

ExperienceHunt wrote:Sorry if it doesnt belong to this forum; im new
:lol:
yeah a new spammer
والقس هو مجنون
Bik
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Bik » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:19 am

I finished my xmas shopping last weekend (I always get it out of the way in Oct), if only I'd known about Golden Moments first :lol:
"Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion." Superintendent Chalmers
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