Count Me Out.ie

General discussions
ctr
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by ctr » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:49 pm

chemicals wrote:
ExperienceHunt wrote:Sorry if it doesnt belong to this forum; im new
:lol:
yeah a new spammer
Lol a spammer...wheres me hammer... Da-dum!!
Each of us is here on earth for a reason, and each of us has a special mission to carry out - Maria Shriver
Ciaran
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Ciaran » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:18 pm

Rogan wrote:Do you think there's any way of finding out for sure? I'm contemplating following the matter up with the Dublin Archdiocese, who I originally made the act of defecion through. I'd like to get confirmation on whether or not my defection stands, if I found out that it doesn't, it will serve as a warning to others who are considering baptising their children against their will.
The only way to be sure is to make a data protection request to view the baptismal register in your paraish of baptism. I'm going to do this out of pure pig-iron.
lostexpectation wrote:countmeout seem stuck are believing what the church say, do it the data protection way... write to the arch diocese you were baptised in give the details, cite the law and pro-actively opt out, you have right to rectification or erasure and blocking
As I understand the law countmeout.ie have it right. You can only ask for erasure, recification or blocking in cetain circumstances or if the information is to be used for certain purposes. As the baptism is a historical fact the info is not incorrect, they don't use it for direct marketting and they don't allow automated decisions be made with it so it can't be blocked or erased on that basis. Perhaps you could argue that they block it so that you are not used as one of the stats on how many catholics there are and you want the register to reflect that, but I don't know if they really do that anyway. If the act of formal defection is gone then they don't even have to amend the register by law as by their own totalitarian rules you can't leave their organisation. The only thing I can think of is a civil defamation case if they call you a catholic and ruin your good standing, but there is such a thing as going too far...
eccles
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Thou shalt not defect: baptism is forever

Post by eccles » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:09 pm

I hope you are all up to speed with this:

IS NO LONGER possible, it would seem, to leave the Catholic Church. Although the church in Ireland has been accepting applications to defect, many on foot of applications printed from the user-friendly CountMeOut website, it said on Tuesday that it would no longer process them. The website, which has helped disillusioned Catholics leave, has suspended offering the defection papers “until the situation has been clarified”.

In a somewhat ambiguously worded statement the Dublin archdiocese set out the situation for all dioceses: “The Holy See confirmed at the end of August that it was introducing changes to canon law and as a result it will no longer be possible to formally defect from the Catholic Church.” But, it continued: “This will not alter the fact that many people can defect from the church and continue to do so, albeit not through a formal process. This is a change that will affect the church throughout the world.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/wee ... 20276.html

Once those bastards have got you they have you for all eternity.
em hotep

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GazUtd
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by GazUtd » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:24 pm

Here's an idea....

Could we sue the Catholic Church for defamation? If they have my name on a piece of paper saying I'm Catholic then that constitutes publication and it damn well should lower my standing in the eyes of normal everyday people!!
Humans are an intelligent species. We just aren't smart enough to realise how stupid we are.

Wouldn't life be great if the 8 hours spent in bed were as long as the 8 hours spent in work.
Ciaran
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Ciaran » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:56 pm

I suggested the possibility two posts above but I really doubt it as the register only says you were baptised. Even if not amended with the actus statement it doesn't mean they are making any active claim about you other than the historical fact of your baptism.
Tulip1
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Tulip1 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:04 pm

I said it before but you should beat them with their own stick.... it's against freedom of religion if you cannot go to an other religion or don't want to have one.

Not that the chirch gives a damn about anyones rights.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
HylandPaddy
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by HylandPaddy » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:34 pm

Ciaran wrote:I suggested the possibility two posts above but I really doubt it as the register only says you were baptised. Even if not amended with the actus statement it doesn't mean they are making any active claim about you other than the historical fact of your baptism.
Then we've got them. If they refuse to change the register to allow for defections we could sue for defamation; if they use the above argument (that the register only says you were baptised, not that your a catholic) then they've made the register absolutely worthless as a political tool; as they cannot use it to claim their numbers.

They have to acknowledge that people want to leave the list or acknowledge that the list is increasinging becoming an inaccurate count of the number of catholics.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan
GazUtd
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by GazUtd » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:32 pm

Perhaps the Catholic church could learn something from the Mormons....


http://i.imgur.com/vVaAc.jpg


(Pic too big to embed)
Humans are an intelligent species. We just aren't smart enough to realise how stupid we are.

Wouldn't life be great if the 8 hours spent in bed were as long as the 8 hours spent in work.
lostexpectation
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by lostexpectation » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:05 pm

Ciaran wrote:
As I understand the law countmeout.ie have it right. You can only ask for erasure, recification or blocking in cetain circumstances or if the information is to be used for certain purposes. As the baptism is a historical fact the info is not incorrect, they don't use it for direct marketting and they don't allow automated decisions be made with it so it can't be blocked or erased on that basis. Perhaps you could argue that they block it so that you are not used as one of the stats on how many catholics there are and you want the register to reflect that, but I don't know if they really do that anyway. If the act of formal defection is gone then they don't even have to amend the register by law as by their own totalitarian rules you can't leave their organisation. The only thing I can think of is a civil defamation case if they call you a catholic and ruin your good standing, but there is such a thing as going too far...

well i was suggesting rectification as notification on the baptism records same as with church defection, I thought it was extremely unfortunate that the news came out with headlines, site shuts down defection service, rather then at first saying the vatican had changed the rules again. countmeout could have said we're continuing right along with rectification via the data protection act and use it chance to promote it rather the falling over when the church moved.
test
Reilly616
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Re: Count Me Out.ie

Post by Reilly616 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:52 pm

Everyone who's worying, keep this in perspective.

Has the law on data storage changed in Ireland? No.
Do the administration procedures of a tiny absolute monarchy hundereds of miles away have any bearing on Ireland's data protection legislation? No.
Can the Vatican, in any way, legitimately hinder your rights in Ireland? No.

The Data Protection Acts are still the way to go. If the church decides to no longer follow these laws, then you write to the Data Protection Commissioner and he will determine the case. If, for any reason, you are unhappy with his ruling, then you go to the Circuit Court. Nothing of any legal value has changed.
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