Catholic Church Criminals.

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Freethinker
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Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by Freethinker » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:25 pm

It is with incredulity and anger that I read in the Irish Times (Monday Nov.30), that the the Bishop of Killaloe, Dr Willie Walsh, in the November issue of The Furrow, warns "against calls to prosecute perpetrators of abuse". He "does not see that there will be any healing" in attempts to prosecute those religious who are responsible for sexual assaults on children. I believe that this is but a miserable attempt by this church man to excuse the criminals in his male dominated organisation, and seek to prevent their facing justice for their crimes.

Healing is the process by which the abused children are given back their life and their self worth as far as possible. Justice is the process that all criminals must face to answer for their crimes. Even those criminals who seek to hide behind the Catholic Collar are not, and must never be, immune to justice for the sake of "healing"

Never again must we allow these church athorities to offer shameful excuses for crimes committed by their members. They are not above the laws of this State, and this must be made abundantly clear to Bishop Willie Walsh and his like.
Freethinker
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Catholic Church Criminals

Post by Freethinker » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:40 pm

In todays Irish Times 1/12/09

In June 2001, every diocesan bishop in the Catholic Church was written to, in Latin, by the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, then cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict. They were instructed that, where complaints of clerical child sex abuse were concerned, these were first to be referred to Rome and it would decide how they were to be dealt with.

The Congregation document was accompanied by a letter, also in Latin, stipulating that the instruction was to be kept secret.



If you ever needed proof that the Catholic church, like every other church, is a man made organisation then look no further. It exists for the power and and wealth of its leaders and will cling to that come what may including the sexual abuse and rape and starvation of children.
Ygern
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Re: Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by Ygern » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:57 pm

Willie Walsh's remarks are utterly irrelevant apart from being morally repugnant. It's like saying that a murderer should not be prosecuted because it won't bring the victim back to life.

Criminal law is not about what the victims may or may not get in redress of the damage done to them. That (suing for damages) is a matter for civil law. Criminal law is about bringing people who have committed crimes to justice. It has a punitive element (punishing the crime) and a social element (protecting society from the wrongdoer).
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ctr
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Re: Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by ctr » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:32 pm

Precisely.

Now if it can be shown that a Bishop followed the instruction of the then Vardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict and that in doing so it allowed a pedophile to continue to abuse then IMHO it makes both the Bishop and the Pope culpable.

They should be asked to attend for questions and if they refused then complied to attend. A European Arrest Warrent should be applied for and should he leave the Vatican for a EU state this state should ask it is enacted.

However I am aware he can claim diplomatic immunity...


Oh wishful thinking... :?
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Regens Küchl
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Re: Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by Regens Küchl » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:55 pm

ctr wrote: Now if it can be shown that a Bishop followed the instruction of the then Vardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict and that in doing so it allowed a pedophile to continue to abuse then IMHO it makes both the Bishop and the Pope culpable.

They should be asked to attend for questions and if they refused then complied to attend. A European Arrest Warrent should be applied for and should he leave the Vatican for a EU state this state should ask it is enacted.

However I am aware he can claim diplomatic immunity...
He would not even need to do that, presumably.
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Re: Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by FXR » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:23 pm

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P5A.HTM

TITLE I.
THE COMPETENT FORUM (Cann. 1404 - 1416)

Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one.

Can. 1405 §1. It is solely the right of the Roman Pontiff himself to judge in the cases mentioned in ⇒ can. 1401:

1/ those who hold the highest civil office of a state;

2/ cardinals;

3/ legates of the Apostolic See and, in penal cases, bishops;

4/ other cases which he has called to his own judgment.

§2. A judge cannot review an act or instrument confirmed specifically (in forma specifica) by the Roman Pontiff without his prior mandate.
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Ygern
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Re: Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by Ygern » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:55 pm

It doesn't matter what Canon Law says about the pope, it's not law in Ireland nor is it binding on any country for that matter. All those provisions do is state that as far as the Church is concerned, the pope is above the law.

There would however be a difficult battle to get anyone outside of Ireland to stand trial in Ireland - rather like the lengths to which various countries have gone to bring Second World War Nazis to justice, or to bring Pinochet to stand trial.

That's assuming that the Powers That Be would agree that the Justice Minister try to bring a case against the Vatican or the pope of course, which I can pretty much guarantee they will not.
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ctr
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Re: Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by ctr » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:20 pm

Agreed Canon Law has no effect in matters of the legal code here.

But I'm well aware that this would not happen. :(

My point is that, assuming it can be shown that they knew of the abuse and did nothing to stop it, then the actions outlined should happen.

The mere fact that such an arrest warrant existed would concentrate the mind of those at the top of the CC.
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Re: Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:35 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't these idiots who facilitated the child rape be arrested and charged with criminal neglect? I were running a school where one of my teachers was abusing children and I put that teacher into a position where he could abuse again, wouldn't I be arrested for criminal neglect?
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
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Re: Catholic Church Criminals.

Post by FXR » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:16 am

bipedalhumanoid wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't these idiots who facilitated the child rape be arrested and charged with criminal neglect? I were running a school where one of my teachers was abusing children and I put that teacher into a position where he could abuse again, wouldn't I be arrested for criminal neglect?
I can't see how anyone who facilated child rape can't be charged with aiding and abetting a crime or even conspiracy. The Bishops were the Godfathers. They met regulary and discussed the situation. The thing is why they did everything to cover it up when they had direct reports and even parents appealing to them. I don't believe they were simply men who after years spent in the CCL were hearing such stories for the first time. If they were they would have reacted differently. How many seminarians were abused by their fellow clerics? We know Brian D'Arcy was one for a start according to his book.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
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