Is there such a thing as a moderate atheist?

brianmmulligan · Post by **brianmmulligan** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:58 pm

If fundamentalist religious people claimed that their is no such thing as a moderate atheist, would we agree with them?

Does the conviction that there is no god, if followed logically, ultimately lead people to take a hard line against religion? Are those professed atheists who see some merit in religion, being inconsistent and not really proper athiests at all? Are those who claim the need to compromise, or keep quiet in certain discussions, in order to make progress, undermining atheism and best done without?

Neesik · Post by **Neesik** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:17 pm

I voted yes, I think there must be a lot of Atheists, who while not believing in any god/s, just leave it at that and say nothing about religion in schools, religion in politics, religion in hospitals, I would call them moderate.

I, on the other hand am more of an Antitheist and challenge religion wherever I can, I write regularly to Tony B liar and my own MP on all the issues in the first paragraph, plus the church's tax exempt status and other topics as and when they arise.

Martha · Post by **Martha** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:52 am

brianmmulligan wrote:...fundamentalist religious people ..

Are there any other type of religious people?

Does the conviction that there is no god, if followed logically, ultimately lead people to take a hard line against religion?

What do you mean by a "hard line"?

Are those professed atheists who see some merit in religion, being inconsistent and not really proper athiests at all?

Atheists don't see any merit in religion, that's why they are atheists.

Are those who claim the need to compromise, or keep quiet in certain discussions, in order to make progress, undermining atheism and best done without?

No, they are not undermining atheism. They are merely reinforcing religion.

Martha · Post by **Martha** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:55 am

Neesik wrote:
I, on the other hand am more of an Antitheist and challenge religion wherever I can, I write regularly to Tony B liar and my own MP on all the issues in the first paragraph, plus the church's tax exempt status and other topics as and when they arise.

And do all your letters to Bliar et al produce any positive results, do you think?

brianmmulligan · Post by **brianmmulligan** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:11 pm

Martha wrote:
brianmmulligan wrote:...fundamentalist religious people ..
Are there any other type of religious people?

Yes. Those who believe that religion is a personal issue and that it is a fundamental human right to have the freedom to practice as you see fit (or not practice at all). I know plenty of these personally. US constitution is quite good on that. Better than the Irish anyway.

brianmmulligan · Post by **brianmmulligan** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:14 pm

Martha wrote:
Does the conviction that there is no god, if followed logically, ultimately lead people to take a hard line against religion?
What do you mean by a "hard line"?

Good question as there may be varying degrees of hard line. I suppose a soft line is the idea that even if I'm an atheist I don't care about what others believe as long as it does not affect me. A harder line woujld be that people should be dissuaded from belief in god. An extremely hard line would be that people should be prevented from practicing religion (as used to be in former communist countries). I'm sure we could define a moderately hard line in between. Do you get me now?

brianmmulligan · Post by **brianmmulligan** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:17 pm

Martha wrote:
Are those professed atheists who see some merit in religion, being inconsistent and not really proper athiests at all?
Atheists don't see any merit in religion, that's why they are atheists.

Sorry Martha, not true. From Atheism course 101: An atheist is someone who does not believe in god. Believing that there is some merit in religion is a separated issue.

Martha · Post by **Martha** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:42 pm

brianmmulligan wrote:An extremely hard line would be that people should be prevented from practicing religion (as used to be in former communist countries).

Yes, just the same way RomanCatholicism forces its ideology on people, Ireland included, of course. Oh the irony of all it all!

Martha · Post by **Martha** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:45 pm

brianmmulligan wrote:
Martha wrote:
Are those professed atheists who see some merit in religion, being inconsistent and not really proper athiests at all?
Atheists don't see any merit in religion, that's why they are atheists.

Sorry Martha, not true. From Atheism course 101: An atheist is someone who does not believe in god. Believing that there is some merit in religion is a separated issue.

What's Atheism course 101?

How is believing there is some merit in religion a separate issue from a belief in god? I don't see it, can you explain?

brianmmulligan · Post by **brianmmulligan** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:33 pm

Martha wrote:
How is believing there is some merit in religion a separate issue from a belief in god? I don't see it, can you explain?

Imagine a primitive situation where people had no understanding of science and were not cooperating and generally suffering because of this. Hypothetical of course. Now imagine some persuasive individual came along and persuaded people that there was an orbiting teapot in the sky which would punish them if they did not cooperate with each other in order to improve their lives. It could be argued that in this simple scenario, their innacurate beliefs were improving their situation. Now the question is, in the much more complex situation in the modern world, can it be proved that religion contributes nothing to our welfare (ie. "some merit").

English is not my strongest point, so let me know if there is anything in the above statements that are unclear.