What "turned" you?

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brianmmulligan
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Post by brianmmulligan » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:55 pm

I'm with Citizen Paine on this one. I wanted to sleep with girls. Seriously though. I grew up in a stricy catholic family but my Dad was a bit of an amateur theologian. The doctrine had to be logically and I picked up that approach from him (If it was not genetically in both of us). HOwever, there were many conundrums in catholic theology that they had to tie themselves up in knots to explain (limbo was a good one), which cast doubts on some of the basic assumptions. Anyway, having the normal amount of hormones as a teenager I wanted to know why I was restricted sexually. The reasons given were not convincing (full of meaningless cliches - "respect" etc). I disliked the idea of ala-carte catholicism and so I had to go the whole hog if I wanted my way wit de wimmin. But to be honest, in terms of evidence and logic, it was not difficult. Having come to the rational view that there was no god, it took about 3 or 4 years more to emotionally feel (believe) that there was none. So to answer the second question, I'm afraid that I did originally "believe" in god.

By the way, over the years I have noticed many reasons why young people should not be overly sexually active, but none of these arguments were used by the church.
Brian
Rincewind
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Post by Rincewind » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:03 pm

lostexpectation wrote:
was it not, for any of you, not that you at one point no longer believed but realised the you never believed
My believe is God was like my believe in all those little white lies, i.e The tooth fairy & Santa. When these feel through and I got over the emotinal truama of being lied to (didn't really care as santa only gave me second hand bikes) I kind of started to rebel. I didn't really admit to not believing in god even to myself until my sister got married. I hadn't been to confession in six months and for several years I regarded it as more like a doctors appoinment than spiritual cleansing. This was the first time I actually wondered why bother and started to allow myself to think. I then started to come to my senses. Mosts of the thinking was to do with the chursh than God but it eventually led to one observation, the church tell you God exists but you can trust them. The contradictions and the teachings make no sense so why believe anything they say. I was told that faith is blind, it isn't but it makes you blind.

Rincewind
brianmmulligan
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Post by brianmmulligan » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:40 pm

Interesting you mention santa. I think I expressed elsewhere the amusing theory that the function of santa is to teach children scepticism. Once a child finds out that they have been lied to on such a serious issue, even for benign reasons, they realise that they cannot believe everything they hear, even from those that care about them. But it may not be such a whacky theory. It may have emerged as a cultural "meme" for another reason, but may well have survived because scepticism in society is a useful characteristic in the survival of that group.
Brian
FXR
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Re: What "turned" you?

Post by FXR » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:01 pm

IrishKnight wrote:Just something I would like to know is how we "turned", as I like to call it, from God to Atheism. Also at what age?

Personal it all happened when I was 16 and after reading The Da Vinci Code, I started to ask questions...something religions don't like...then I "saw the light" and it just clicked...
I think I was only about 8 yrs of age (5th class) in Primary School. I was under the control of the De La Salle brothers. I'd always tended to question everything. I began not just to question what they told me but wanted to know who told them. What I noticed most with them and the priests and the catholic church in general was the monumental hypocrisy. Their actions didn’t match their words.

God loves you, we speak for God, six slaps of the leather strap for not listening.

We did have a homosexual brother, Br. Fridlin (no joke that was his real name) He’d sit you on his knee and run his hands up the leg of your short trousers but I don't think that had any effect whatsoever. Far more disgusting was when he’d kiss you on the side of the face. He had those inside out type of lips the colour of liver. We had never even heard the word homosexual.

I think it was the violence that turned me more than anything at first. That and their overwhelming need to control. The more they tried to control me the more I turned into a calculating rebel. I set out to even the score. By twelve my priority was to get excommunicated so I’d be banned from the club and wouldn’t have to go to Mass. I hatched a plan and went into action one evening when the local priest entered our house on his round of the locale. I launched my self at him in the hallway and bit the fucker on the leg. I ended up being walloped and locked in the coal shed. I didn’t get expelled or excommunicated. I think they were getting too much money out of my folks.

I moved on to College and found myself in class with a number of like minded rebels. We lived each day for religion class. As luck would have it we had the same Christian Brother for two years. He was a hunchbacked guy from some deeply religious background in the west of Ireland. We went on the attack at every opportunity. We cursed the Pope, Jesus, God, Their Lady and every thing we could think of. It was psychological warfare on an all out scale. We succeeded in causing him a nervous breakdown and being removed from his post. When we got this news we celebrated in the playing fields by having a celebration parade culminating in the burning of a cross. I hope he eventually committed suicide but I don’t know what happened to him after we’d fried his brain.

Considering the overwhelming unquestioned control they had it’s wonderful witness the fear and loathing coming from the Vatican at this present time. The more they try to keep the genie in the bottle the less likely they are to succeed.

And if I’ve anything to do with it they’re up shit creek without a paddle.

I see it crimson, I see it red….
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
divil_a_bit
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Post by divil_a_bit » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:18 pm

I never had a "eureka moment" where I suddenly realised that all this talk of God was a pile of crap. For starters, as a kid I really, really, really believed. I took the whole thing hook, line and sinker!

At about 14 I read "A brief history of time" and that really got me thinking. It didn't line up with anything I had been though about God and the bible.

This was around about the time of all the "moving statues" around the country - remember that??? It got a lot of air time on the TV. My parents, who are both catholic, told me that anyone who sees a moving statue was mad!!! That was their opinion and they were right, it couldn't happen. Then we visited Knock as a family and I asked my parents, why don't they think that that story of Mary appearing at Knock is the same thing as the moving statues? Why don't they think the people who saw Mary way back when were mad? They didn't have an answer.

The more I questioned, the more I had my doubts. By 15 I had told my parents I wouldn't be going to mass anymore. I explained why and they totally understood and respected my decision.

At age 28 I officially renounced my faith with a letter to the diocesan secretary in Galway. I felt it was an important step for me ... I realise it's not significant for some people, but it is for me.
artyfarty
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Post by artyfarty » Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:56 am

At age 28 I officially renounced my faith with a letter to the diocesan secretary in Galway.
What kind of response (if any) did you get from them?
A little boy prayed for a bike. Then he realised God doesn't work that way so he stole a bike and asked for forgiveness.

Carl Sagan - The Pale Blue Dot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M
zhollie
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Post by zhollie » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:13 am

I was wondering about that too. I was also wondering about why you felt you had to renounce your faith to the church? I respect your right to tackle this personel issue however you see fit but it's not something I would do myself. I don't owe anybody an explaination for my atheism, least of all the church.
divil_a_bit
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Post by divil_a_bit » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:16 pm

artyfarty wrote: What kind of response (if any) did you get from them?
I received a letter that was quite formal really - like any other business letter one would receive. Short and to the point ... with no mention on atheism or of God.

The letter went something like this roughly:

"Thank you for yor letter of 12th December 2007.

I respect your wishes. I confirm your request has been registered. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.

Every good wish.

Yours sincerely,

..."
divil_a_bit
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Post by divil_a_bit » Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:23 pm

zhollie wrote:I was also wondering about why you felt you had to renounce your faith to the church? I respect your right to tackle this personel issue however you see fit but it's not something I would do myself. I don't owe anybody an explaination for my atheism, least of all the church.
I can understand your point of view too. I felt like that for a while too but I always had this niggling feeling that somebody somewhere was counting me as a Catholic and that didn't sit well with me.

I know all the arguements for and against renouncing ones faith, but I feel that the records should be set straight.
Seamus89
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Post by Seamus89 » Tue May 08, 2007 2:53 am

my "conversion" took about 6 months.first i read alot about how the christian religion was formed and realised catholism ws a load of shit so i became a gnoistic(forgive spelling) believeing that god was just there to help me if i really needed him.then last october i read the ethos effect,gravity dreams,the eternity artifact by L.E.Modessit,all sci-fi novels and phanton and its wizards 10th rule by terry goodkind(fantasy fiction).after finishing the ethos effect i thought there is no god or reason for him to exist and i was an atheist
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