What "turned" you?

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FXR
Posts: 3176
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: re...

Post by FXR » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:48 pm

AL9000 wrote:Hello all. First post.

Here's one for yis. Was always fascinated by astronomy. I came across a marvelous book called 'The Universe' when I was @6-7 yrs old. Full of lovely glossy pictures too. Always interested in all things scientific and 'interesting'. Always took notice of reports in newspapers of UFO's and the like, and then lo-and-behold when I was 11yrs of age (1980), me and me mate seen, well basically a silver metallic disc 'thing' in the sky over Coolmine Woods, Blanchardstown. It did some funky shit.
Anyhow, it had a profound impact on the both of us. My friend went all 'spiritual', i.e started reading about 'Astral Projection' and the like. But I went for the nuts+bolts type of thing. Getting back on point, I had to go to school the next day with all this. Given that at that age you are probably at your most impressionable, I questioned everything in school, especially in religion class. I was always getting letters home to my mother for being 'obstructive' in class, when in fact all I was doing was asking questions that the teacher simply couldn't answer, and probably still can't, Grud bless her.
But that would be my turning point. Although I think even before that I often thought that: "would I eat the same food as a 2000yr old people?", "would I wear the same clothes as a 2000yr old people?", "would I even think like a 2000yr old people?", and the answer of course was "No" to all, so why the f**k should I believe the 'beliefs' of some far away person(s) from 2000 years ago?!!
Of course as we all know, if you are a 'normal' kid going through the mill, it's easy to go along with the brainwashing (which is precisely what religion class was in Ireland back then). Luckily for me I was given the spark to question everything, especially religious dogma. Ugh!

Thanks for reading.
AL
You might have gone to school with Stublore, he's in Blanch too.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
AL9000
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:30 pm

re...

Post by AL9000 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:10 pm

You might have gone to school with Stublore, he's in Blanch too.
He's one of me best mates actually! He directed me to this site in fact.


AL
FXR
Posts: 3176
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: re...

Post by FXR » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:07 pm

AL9000 wrote:
You might have gone to school with Stublore, he's in Blanch too.
He's one of me best mates actually! He directed me to this site in fact.


AL
Are you on the Hitchens tickets I have him down for?
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
AL9000
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:30 pm

re...

Post by AL9000 » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:25 am

Are you on the Hitchens tickets I have him down for?

Yes I am! You still have some?
Stublore hasn't gotten back to me yet.


Cheers man.



AL
FXR
Posts: 3176
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: re...

Post by FXR » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:35 pm

AL9000 wrote:
Are you on the Hitchens tickets I have him down for?

Yes I am! You still have some?
Stublore hasn't gotten back to me yet.
Cheers man.
AL
Don't worry I have three put aside for him. I will leave them in the box office.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
AL9000
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:30 pm

re..

Post by AL9000 » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:19 am

Cheers. Thanks for that. I shall inform Stublore.....



AL
RandytheAtheist
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:23 pm

Post by RandytheAtheist » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:07 pm

Wow! It appears I was late in my god detox. My enlightenment began in college while studying religion (of all things), and the subject came to Mormonism. I decided to do some research into this growing religion and discovered that it was invented in an attempt to reconcile christianity and the problem of the existence of the American Indians.

Were these people saved by Jesus or were they born in the wrong place at the wrong time? Apparently, Jesus didn't save them and neither did he save their ancestors who were born much too early in a land much too far away. Thus began the rise of Mormonism - a belief that the Native Indians of America are somehow decendants of the Levites. Modern DNA examinations of the Indians have shown that they did not come from the Levites. They came from Russia many thousands of years before Jacob and his tribes were even born.

Anyway, it boiled down to the fact that who you are and what you come to believe in is all accidental - a function of time, geography and circumstance. Had we been born in the first dynasties of Egypt, we would be worshipping the "true gods" and "true dieties" en vogue during those eras. Likewise, if we were born only a few centuries ago in the Pacific islands, we would be in tune with their systems of "true ritual". There would be no one to tell us otherwise because we would be born long before any of these icons even existed - let alone published in a book and circulated around the globe. According to christian and muslim standards today, we would have been born in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It became very apparent that gods and their religions are entirely man-made ideas and that they could be nothing else. It was a bittersweet transcendance but one that I am happy to have discovered.

Cheers ~
Randy the Atheist
lostexpectation
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Post by lostexpectation » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:20 pm

RandytheAtheist wrote:
Were these people saved by Jesus or were they born in the wrong place at the wrong time? Apparently, Jesus didn't save them and neither did he save their ancestors who were born much too early in a land much too far away. Thus began the rise of Mormonism - a belief that the Native Indians of America are somehow decendants of the Levites. Modern DNA examinations of the Indians have shown that they did not come from the Levites. They came from Russia many thousands of years before Jacob and his tribes were even born.
never knew mormonism and native americans were related?
bipedalhumanoid
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:00 am

RandytheAtheist wrote:Wow! It appears I was late in my god detox. My enlightenment began in college while studying religion (of all things), and the subject came to Mormonism. I decided to do some research into this growing religion and discovered that it was invented in an attempt to reconcile christianity and the problem of the existence of the American Indians.

Were these people saved by Jesus or were they born in the wrong place at the wrong time? Apparently, Jesus didn't save them and neither did he save their ancestors who were born much too early in a land much too far away. Thus began the rise of Mormonism - a belief that the Native Indians of America are somehow decendants of the Levites. Modern DNA examinations of the Indians have shown that they did not come from the Levites. They came from Russia many thousands of years before Jacob and his tribes were even born.

Anyway, it boiled down to the fact that who you are and what you come to believe in is all accidental - a function of time, geography and circumstance. Had we been born in the first dynasties of Egypt, we would be worshipping the "true gods" and "true dieties" en vogue during those eras. Likewise, if we were born only a few centuries ago in the Pacific islands, we would be in tune with their systems of "true ritual". There would be no one to tell us otherwise because we would be born long before any of these icons even existed - let alone published in a book and circulated around the globe. According to christian and muslim standards today, we would have been born in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It became very apparent that gods and their religions are entirely man-made ideas and that they could be nothing else. It was a bittersweet transcendance but one that I am happy to have discovered.

Cheers ~
Randy the Atheist
You and I made the realisation for similar reasons. The geography problem was one of the biggest problems I had with the religion handed to me by my parents (Roman Catholicicsm). In my case it was the Australian Aboriginies. Why didn't Jesus come to them? ... or any other remote tribe. What was so privileged about the few inhabitants of that particular remote location of the middle east that they have such a divine advantage over the majority of people on earth? If of course doesn't disprove the Deist god but Dawkins beats the living crap out of that one anyway with the complexity/infinite regression argument.

I hadn't considered the deistic god at the time but hey, I was only 14.
sharon
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:49 pm

Post by sharon » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:11 pm

I apologise in advance for the length of this post.

I was brought up in a very religious home. My mother always told us that that her dearest wish for us was that we'd keep to our (catholic) faith. I know she wanted us to be be happy and decent and all too, but that was the most important thing to her.

I was very devout myself, though I was never a holy Joe. I mean I never talked about my faith unless I was directly asked. I went to university in London and still went to mass every week. It was as much to keep up a familiar and comforting ritual as anything else. The English catholics, especially in the university chaplaincy, seemed to be far more outwardly religious. It always bugged me how long the masses took, what the hell was wrong with having it all done in 45 minutes at most.

Anyway, I met a man, and we married. He was from a Methodist background, but wasn't religious at all. He did believe in god though. I asked him to convert (oh the shame) and it wasn't a big deal to him what brand of christianity he followed, and he knew it was to me, so he did. All 3 of our children were baptised as catholics.

I had long standing issues with many church teachings, and like every other catholic person I know, I adopted the pick and mix approach to the church's teachings. I still believed in the creed and the sacraments, and considered the huge flaws of the church to be a man made problem, and something I was determined to try to change.

But then I read a book by an ex-nun, who had been thrown out of her order for questioning church teaching on women's ordination. It demonstrated that my hope of being able to work for change on the inside, was impossible.

Meanwhile, I was attending mass less often. My husband worked long hours and Sunday mornings were precious time to be together. Struggling through mass with 3 small children, was not what we wanted to do.

I read on, starting to really question all these things that had meant so much to me. My husband had only done the church thing to please me, so he was happy to drop it. At the same time, there were more stories emerging about church abuses, and more frequent sexist and homophobic pronouncements from the church. I watched the 'Atheism' film by Jonathon Miller a few years back, and read the essays by Bertrand Russell.

It struck me that I been fooled. I'd let myself be fooled. The reasons not to believe in god were far more convincing.
Not enough evidence, god.
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