Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

General discussions
Ygern
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 3003
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:02 pm
Location: Cork
Contact:

Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by Ygern » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:33 pm

The Pope finally released his response to Irish Catholics concerning all the abuse and rape cases that have come to light. Read it here
Bizarrely he feels that the faithful are the ones that must do penance.

I'm never entirely sure whether the hierarchy of the Church really believes their own dogma or whether they are simply cynically holding to a career that pays well and offers good perks. However he doesn't seem to have much respect for Irish Catholics if he recommends that they do penance for crimes committed by the clergy.

One thing he can be certain of is that those Catholics who follow this command humbly without a word of protest at the insult are so institutionalised that they literally will put up with anything and can be relied on to shut up and stay in their place in future.

Colm O'Gorman has started a response here:
This letter is primarily concerned not with the protection of children but with getting people back into the church.

If the Pope is truly concerned for the welfare of victims, his primary focus would be on ensuring that there are no further victims, and not only here in Ireland but across the global church he governs as Supreme Pontiff.

It was a simple enough an exercise. Acknowledge the fact of the cover up by the Church, take responsibility for it, and show how you will ensure it never happens again.

But the Pope failed to do any of these things.
Read further
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
Cork Skeptics
dugges
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:34 pm
Location: Baile átha Cliath

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by dugges » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:36 pm

...And in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit,
you have been "unraped"


OR

If you have been repulsed by reading the negative articles about our supa-rich organisation, pray for a year so YOUR sins MAY be forgiven.

Someone tie me up in a straightjacket please, to stop me from committing a CIVIL offence that is actually punishable (because I'm an ordinary citizen)

Why respect people who revere such a nasty little man.....????? *shudders**
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams
Ygern
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 3003
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:02 pm
Location: Cork
Contact:

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by Ygern » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:33 pm

The pope also thinks that secularisation is to blame as well:

"your country has had to confront new and serious challenges to the faith arising from the rapid transformation and secularization of Irish society. Fast-paced social change has occurred, often adversely affecting people's traditional adherence to Catholic teaching and values. All too often, the sacramental and devotional practices that sustain faith and enable it to grow, such as frequent confession, daily prayer and annual retreats, were neglected. Significant too was the tendency during this period, also on the part of priests and religious, to adopt ways of thinking and assessing secular realities without sufficient reference to the Gospel....It is in this overall context that we must try to understand the disturbing problem of child sexual abuse, which has contributed in no small measure to the weakening of faith and the loss of respect for the Church and her teachings"

So there you have it - anyone who does not order their lives with constant reference to the Gospel is in some way to blame for child rape by priests. He indicts all secularists, humanists, atheists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Jains, Buddhists and Jedis.
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
Cork Skeptics
eccles
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:17 am
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by eccles » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:10 pm

At the Global Atheist Convention in Melbourne, Australia recently Prof. Richard Dawkins compared the beliefs and practises of the Roman Catholic Church as "Pythonesque". I doubt if the Monty Mython Team could top the lastest actions of Herr Papst Ratslinger and his "Yes men".

"The Pope is a Bum" (Dave Allen)
em hotep

Image

Robert Tobin Minister, First Church of Atheism (Philidelphia)
"May Your God Go WIth You"
Dev
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by Dev » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:00 pm

In our increasingly secularized society...
Nice to see even the pope acknowledging the forces of secularization have become mainstream.

I'm pretty happy with the letter. It's not too late and it's clear and checks the boxes.
Acknowledge the fact of the cover up by the Church, take responsibility for it, and show how you will ensure it never happens again.
I feel the letter did acknowledge wrong doing. He specifically mentioned priests who had abused and bishops who failed to take the right action. The church should implement some measures to ensure it doesn't happen again like the better mechanisms to determine the eligibility of candidates for priesthood. i.e. pervert screening. The pope outlined this stuff in the letter.

However most of the onus is on the Irish people to ensure it doesn't happen again not the church. We must it ensure it can't happen again by the separation of church and state.

This probably isn't the letter many would have liked to see but I don't think the pope would have ever written that one. For now though this is a good start.
Ygern
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 3003
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:02 pm
Location: Cork
Contact:

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by Ygern » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:08 pm

I'm pretty happy with the letter.
The pope claims that secularists - like you - are in some way to blame for the fact that children were raped and abused and exploited in Ireland. In what way do you think that this is ok?
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
Cork Skeptics
mkaobrih
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1601
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:48 pm

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by mkaobrih » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:52 pm

Walked by the church in my town today during mass time - chock a block full – Irish people will accept a lot of shit. (I wish there was a smilely to reflect my feelings).
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
Globi
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:45 am

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by Globi » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:20 am

Ygern wrote:
I'm pretty happy with the letter.
The pope claims that secularists - like you - are in some way to blame for the fact that children were raped and abused and exploited in Ireland. In what way do you think that this is ok?
As a secularist I am offended. Where can I complain?
laffingtiger
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:53 am
Location: Donegal

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by laffingtiger » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:48 am

I believe deeply in the healing power of his (Christ’s) self-sacrificing love
What a load of papal dung. :evil:
Where was "his (Christ's) self-sacrificing love" when clergy were taking advantage of innocent and vunerable young children.(suffer little children? blah)
Actually, maybe the problem is "self-sacrificing".Preaching this doctrine can only lead one way.
A Dream dreamt by oneself is just a dream..........
But a Dream dreamt with others is Reality.
bipedalhumanoid
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:32 am

Ygern wrote:
I'm pretty happy with the letter.
The pope claims that secularists - like you - are in some way to blame for the fact that children were raped and abused and exploited in Ireland. In what way do you think that this is ok?
This seems to have gone unchallenged yet again in the media. Every time something 'bad' about our society is discussed 'growing secularisation' is blamed and no alternative view is provided. I find it abhorent that the pope would seek to scapegoat secularists when it is absolutely crystal clear that, in this case, it is this 'growing secularisation' that made it possible to expose the crimes of the church.

It wasn't secularisation that lead the Gardai to refer complaints of abuse back to the church instead of investigating them. It wasn't secularistation that lead abuse victims and their families to keep quiet. It wasn't secularisation that gave these paedophiles the power to commit these deplorable acts of abuse.

Secularisation is the reason that this society no longer finds this kind of coverup acceptable. It was very clearly a lack of secularisation that enabled the abusers.


I read Fintan O'Toole's article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma ... atholicism
It's very good but the word 'secular' or 'secularisation' doesn't appear in it even once.
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
Post Reply