Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

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HylandPaddy
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Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by HylandPaddy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:40 pm

smellyoldgit wrote:I had a root around for any reference in the poop's letter to 'justice' related statements - duly bolded below;
You misspelt po- oh, I see what you did there.

My only criticism is the lack of reference to the cover-up of child rape. The institutionalised, systemic reshuffling and harbouring of known abusers. It's all one big PR exercise.
I think it comes from the Vaticans belief that it is descended from christ's first church and that christ can't return unless his righteous church exists on earth. When you look at it like that it all makes sense, the church equates its own survival with the second coming. That sets up the potential for great harm to be done by the church in order to preserve itself.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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smellyoldgit
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Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by smellyoldgit » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:49 pm

HylandPaddy wrote:My only criticism is the lack of reference to the cover-up of child rape.
Quite right. I think we all realise that if the will was strong enought in the civil authorities to properly pursue the protectors, then much of the remaining respect of the unthinking masses would vanish even quicker than it already is.
Beebub
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Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by Beebub » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:50 pm

HylandPaddy wrote:My only criticism is the lack of reference to the cover-up of child rape.
You're only criticism??

Does that mean you're happy with him laying the blame at the feet of the 'increased secularisation of Ireland'?
HylandPaddy
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Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by HylandPaddy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:03 pm

But isn't irish secularism a recent thing? Did most of the abuse not occur when Ireland was staunchly catholic? I think many people will see through this thinly veiled attempt to dampen the blame.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan
Ygern
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Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by Ygern » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:55 pm

Fergus Finlay has written a good piece in the Irish Examiner:

Pope keeps on fiddling while Irish wing of the Church of Rome burns

For years some church people (not by any means all) have chosen to regard the whole issue of child abuse as a bit of a public relations disaster rather than the manifestation of corrupt power that it actually is. The suggestion that the entire issue is down to bad management in Ireland is just another expression of that self-serving mythology.

Pope Benedict then goes on to describe the context for everything that has gone wrong. Fast-paced social change, the neglect of sacramental and devotional practices, the secularisation of society – all these are part of the picture, the Pope explains. Although it’s not said in so many words, the inference is that we, somehow, by becoming less committed Catholics, conspired in the spread of abuse.

How? How are these changes part of the picture? How can a church that wielded absolute power, that dictated the lives and morals of its flock, all the while secretly tolerating abuse within its ranks – how can it now claim that a gradual liberalisation within society was part of the context that allowed abuse to flourish?

Isn’t it in fact the case that while religious adherence in Ireland was at its height, the church used the faith to intimidate individuals and their families from reporting abuse and from trying to stop it?

Isn’t it the case that the church used the faith to insist on a deferential, even an obsequious, approach from the civil authorities here? The Ryan and Murphy reports spell out all too clearly that government and public servants alike turned a blind eye to the abuse within institutions and conspired in the silencing of anyone who tried to speak out.
Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/co ... z0j2FmFLgb
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Bik
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Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by Bik » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:49 pm

Good ariticle here too in the Times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 073217.ece
"Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion." Superintendent Chalmers
smellyoldgit
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Re: Pope to Ireland: pray, fast and do penance for a year

Post by smellyoldgit » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:39 am

The Case for the Defence.
The Vatican has revealed its three-point defence against an American lawsuit seeking to have the Pope deposed over claims of sexual abuse and cover-ups in the Catholic Church.

The Kentucky case is the first in the U.S. to reach the stage of determining whether victims actually have a claim against the Vatican itself for allegedly failing to alert police or the public about Roman Catholic priests who molested children.
  • Pope has immunity as head of state
  • Bishops who oversaw abusive priests were not employed by Vatican
  • 1962 document does not provide proof of cover-up
I assume the jeetardesque wriggling & squirming is likely to be of biblical reinterpretation proportions!
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