Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

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deferm
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Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

Post by deferm » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:36 pm

I think as a country we have missed our oppurtunity to put some manners on the catholic church, and protect future children from abuses.

I belive strongly we should have harnessed opinion over the past few months, to introduce an obudsman to investigate, all reports of abuse in the church. In the past we know the guards/RUC have not been able to investigate properly abuse cases by priests for all sorts of reasons.

Now I think its too late to enforce change, and we are going to be left with the catholic church being allowed to "reform" itself. We all know this will amount to nothing more than them wanting to be seen to protect children for PR, rather than actually protecting them.

I think the church is now winning the fightback, and most people now think they are being over criticised. This is such as shame.
Dev
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Re: Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

Post by Dev » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:30 am

deferm wrote: I think the church is now winning the fightback, and most people now think they are being over criticised. This is such as shame.
The Catholic church will pay either by correct reformations and justice or through loss of followers. People have now started to lay skeptical eyes on the church. I've never seen so much vitriol in the Irish media against the church. With secular movement gaining some ground and the church losing some we're getting closer to a tipping point.
mkaobrih
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Re: Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

Post by mkaobrih » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:50 am

The Garda should be investigated a well – They facilitated the rape of children by not investigating when complaints were made.
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
deferm
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Re: Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

Post by deferm » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:49 am

Dev wrote:
deferm wrote: I think the church is now winning the fightback, and most people now think they are being over criticised. This is such as shame.
The Catholic church will pay either by correct reformations and justice or through loss of followers. People have now started to lay skeptical eyes on the church. I've never seen so much vitriol in the Irish media against the church. With secular movement gaining some ground and the church losing some we're getting closer to a tipping point.
I dunno, I was talking to a priest recently and he was quite pleased that his parish takings were only down £4,000 (now during a recession this is probably an increase in real terms). Also I only know one person who withdraw a child from first communion over this.
IrishAndroid
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Re: Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

Post by IrishAndroid » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:39 am

Dev wrote:The Catholic church will pay either by correct reformations and justice or through loss of followers. People have now started to lay skeptical eyes on the church. I've never seen so much vitriol in the Irish media against the church. With secular movement gaining some ground and the church losing some we're getting closer to a tipping point.
I disagree. Peoples apathy and ignorance will simply allow the Church to get away with this. Call me pessimistic but I can see it happening. Just take a look at the current situation.

The Papal Nuncio refuses to cooperate with Gardai and authorities. Consequences? None.
The majority of schools are controlled by the Church. No real change. Discriminatory laws in employment favoring religious schools still stand.
The Church owes the government €1.2billion+ because of the redress boards. Gets away with paying only €128m. Fiddles the books with transfers of some land into trusts it still controls to make up some more "compensation".
Gardai implicated in decades of coverups. Any gardai held accountable? None that I can see (correct me if I'm wrong).
Pope blames abuse on "secularism"and "individuals", gives half assed apology while diverting blame and distances himself from the mess.
People still go to mass, fork over money and see no problem supporting an institution which actively covered up child rape and protected abusers for over half a century.
deferm
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Re: Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

Post by deferm » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:39 pm

IrishAndroid wrote:
Dev wrote:The Catholic church will pay either by correct reformations and justice or through loss of followers. People have now started to lay skeptical eyes on the church. I've never seen so much vitriol in the Irish media against the church. With secular movement gaining some ground and the church losing some we're getting closer to a tipping point.
I disagree. Peoples apathy and ignorance will simply allow the Church to get away with this. Call me pessimistic but I can see it happening. Just take a look at the current situation.

The Papal Nuncio refuses to cooperate with Gardai and authorities. Consequences? None.
The majority of schools are controlled by the Church. No real change. Discriminatory laws in employment favoring religious schools still stand.
The Church owes the government €1.2billion+ because of the redress boards. Gets away with paying only €128m. Fiddles the books with transfers of some land into trusts it still controls to make up some more "compensation".
Gardai implicated in decades of coverups. Any gardai held accountable? None that I can see (correct me if I'm wrong).
Pope blames abuse on "secularism"and "individuals", gives half assed apology while diverting blame and distances himself from the mess.
People still go to mass, fork over money and see no problem supporting an institution which actively covered up child rape and protected abusers for over half a century.
Hey, stop reading my mind!!!
Regens Küchl
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Re: Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

Post by Regens Küchl » Sun May 02, 2010 1:43 pm

deferm wrote:I think as a country we have missed our oppurtunity to put some manners on the catholic church, and protect future children from abuses.
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Regens Küchl
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Re: Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

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Dev
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Re: Missing out on oppurtunity to protect children.

Post by Dev » Sun May 02, 2010 7:25 pm

IrishAndroid wrote: I disagree. Peoples apathy and ignorance will simply allow the Church to get away with this. Call me pessimistic but I can see it happening. Just take a look at the current situation.
I think the older generation are simply too old and just look the other way, sorry to be crass but they'll die off in the next decade or so. There is evidence of change though as well. It might not be happen as fast as people here would like but the church is a massive institution in Ireland and its downfall won't be overnight. Rather it'll take decades.

While the usual devout followers might not care, those who were sitting on the fence are shifting our end of the spectrum. Rowan Williams recently quoted a friend of his in Ireland who said that "it's becoming difficult to wear the collar down the street in Ireland anymore".

This is a difficult thing to measure or predict but AI is making good progress on the education front and awareness of this problem is being slowly talked about more and more.

We'll see but I remain positive.
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