De-Baptism

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bipedalhumanoid
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:17 am

Martha wrote:
Gar wrote:Hi All, This is my first post on the forum but I've been lurking for a while !
have any of you seen this story ?

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/ ... /debaptism

I was wondering if anyone was aware of a similar process here in Ireland as I'd quite like to make it official so to speak.. Thanks for any info in advance
The notion of "de-baptising" oneself is merely validating the nonsensical ritual of baptising in the first place!
Not it isn't. Particularly because, unlike excommunication, you're not appearling to the church's authority to do it. It's merely a way of showing that you don't agree with childhood indoctrination... would go down well on a livingroom wall.
zhollie
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:34 pm

Post by zhollie » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:55 am

Martha wrote:
Gar wrote:Hi All, This is my first post on the forum but I've been lurking for a while !
have any of you seen this story ?

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/ ... /debaptism

I was wondering if anyone was aware of a similar process here in Ireland as I'd quite like to make it official so to speak.. Thanks for any info in advance
The notion of "de-baptising" oneself is merely validating the nonsensical ritual of baptising in the first place!


Spot on Martha! Why lend any creedence to this mumbo jumbo bullshit of baptism by engaging in their process? A simple verbal declaration of one's atheism should suffice without the de-baptism ( whatever that is). Let's leave the 'spell breaking' to the cult busting loonies.
bipedalhumanoid
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:52 am

zhollie wrote:
Martha wrote:
Gar wrote:Hi All, This is my first post on the forum but I've been lurking for a while !
have any of you seen this story ?

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/ ... /debaptism

I was wondering if anyone was aware of a similar process here in Ireland as I'd quite like to make it official so to speak.. Thanks for any info in advance
The notion of "de-baptising" oneself is merely validating the nonsensical ritual of baptising in the first place!


Spot on Martha! Why lend any creedence to this mumbo jumbo bullshit of baptism by engaging in their process? A simple verbal declaration of one's atheism should suffice without the de-baptism ( whatever that is). Let's leave the 'spell breaking' to the cult busting loonies.
My parents went to the trouble of getting me baptised without my consent. I can't think of a better way to send a message to people I know that childhood indoctrination is wrong.

That is clearly the point of the de-baptism certificate. It's a novel way of making that point. You don't have to apply to the catholic church to get one... you download it and print it out. I don't see how this qualifies as 'giving creedence' to the authority of the church.

Your argument might hold some water when talking about an attempt to be Excommunicated though. But I think it would be a hit worth taking. Imagine the message that would send to my family. I actively disagree with childhood indoctrination. I'd be undoing something that they all went to the trouble of organising and attending. It might make a few people think. But again, as I said earlier, it isn't that easy to get excommunicated from Heir Ratzinger's church.
Gar
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:32 pm

Post by Gar » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:00 am

Hi All, thanks for all your replies..
I agree that the baptism is a ridiculous rite and all and I don't for a moment believe any of the rubbish behind it. However the church certainly does (if you take them at face value) and I think it's important to let them know that there are people who don't want to be part of their club..
If anyone is interested in doing it themselves I have sent the parish I was baptised in a mail asking them how I can get myself removed from their lists I'll post any replies I get from them here
divil_a_bit
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:54 pm

Post by divil_a_bit » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:03 am

Martha wrote: The notion of "de-baptising" oneself is merely validating the nonsensical ritual of baptising in the first place!
I agree - the notion of "de-baptising" is silly. However, I don't think it should be thought of as de-baptising. "de-baptising" is a bad choice of words.

If someone writes a letter to their parish priest stating they want to be struck off the list of catholics, they are not being de-baptised. They are merely setting the records straight. They no longer wish to be counted as a catholic by the church.

From the CSO, there are ~180,000 people in this country with no religion. But I assume the vast majority of them were baptised catholic. If all 180,000 of them (us) sent "de-baptism" letters, I think that would send a very clear message to the church.
Gar
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:32 pm

Post by Gar » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:35 am

thanks divil_a_bit, that expresses for more elequoently what I was attempting to do, I suppose I shouldn't have just copied the Wired headline :P

I also agree that 180,000 people telling any religious organisation that their "services" are no longer required does send a message and it's a message that I personally would like to see sent.
divil_a_bit
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:54 pm

Post by divil_a_bit » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:01 pm

Gar wrote: If anyone is interested in doing it themselves I have sent the parish I was baptised in a mail asking them how I can get myself removed from their lists I'll post any replies I get from them here
Something similar was discussed here:
http://www.atheist.ie/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0
As I said in that thread, I have already sent a "de-baptism" letter. I sent it to the diocesan secretary in Galway stating my parish and when approx I was baptised. I received a reply some time later saying my request had been processed.
FXR
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Location: Dublin

Post by FXR » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:04 pm

divil_a_bit wrote: I agree - the notion of "de-baptising" is silly. However, I don't think it should be thought of as de-baptising. "de-baptising" is a bad choice of words.
If someone writes a letter to their parish priest stating they want to be struck off the list of catholics, they are not being de-baptised. They are merely setting the records straight. They no longer wish to be counted as a catholic by the church.

From the CSO, there are ~180,000 people in this country with no religion. But I assume the vast majority of them were baptised catholic. If all 180,000 of them (us) sent "de-baptism" letters, I think that would send a very clear message to the church.
I think you're on to a good idea there. I'd re-phrase it though. As has been said why go asking a bunch of withch doctors permission for anything.

I think the thing to do would be to write to them telling them that they do not have your permission to include you on their list since they did not have your permission in the first place.

There are no voluntary catholics.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
bipedalhumanoid
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Post by bipedalhumanoid » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:19 pm

here are some interesting links...

The catholic encyclopedia has this to say about excommunication...

"Catholics, on the contrary, cannot be excommunicated unless for some personal, grievously offensive act."...

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm


Wikipedia have a list of people who have been excommunicated. This includes Sinead O'cconer. The list is surprisingly short and doesn't include John Kerry for reasons that elude me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... lic_Church


This is a journal from someone who is attempting to gain excommunication...
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus ... -home.html


This is the Atheist Foundation of Australia's guide to gaining Excommunication from the roman catholic church...

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/excommunication.htm
Martha
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Post by Martha » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:22 pm

bipedalhumanoid wrote:It's merely a way of showing that you don't agree with childhood indoctrination... would go down well on a livingroom wall.
I can think of better things to hang on my livingroom wall - such as a nice painting :wink:
Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.

Woody Allen
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