De-Baptism

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adamd164
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by adamd164 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:25 pm

That's true. I wouldn't blame my parents for having me baptised, even though I wouldn't do it myself. I think it's a consciousness-raising thing. Too many people just see it as harmless; a bit like throwing yourself down as RC on the census even though you don't practice - it's just the done thing. People need to realise that by continuing on this facade it strengthens the position of the CCL in Irish society and it does give them extra sway both politically and hence financially, and why this isn't a good thing for social progression.

Fundamentally, people need to break away from the obviously false idea that religion is the ultimate source of morals; in other words that only good (or at least no harm) could possibly come from associating oneself with religious causes. It breaks down when questioned or discussed openly. This is where organisations like Atheist Ireland need to focus efforts.
aZerogodist
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Defection by Formal Act

Post by aZerogodist » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:06 pm

I would like to repost the important info into a clear guide, and use a poll for counting those that get the letter of Apostasy.
Could we have it as a sticky and within the campaign section.

Also some members have got the baptism stamped with a letter & others deletion of their existence.

Also like the NSS cert, what about a Cert stamped by Atheist Ireland maybe in a frame as well, so if a member attends a meeting and brings their letter of apostasy, then they can pay for a cert and get it signed and stamped in wax.
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lostexpectation
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by lostexpectation » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:49 am

don't like the idea of cert (especially one to pay for) anyway you could frame the thing the priest sends you back confirming the defection.
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Neil
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by Neil » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:11 pm

eoin wrote:Hi all

I officially left the Catholic Church years ago - it is a sort of "de-baptism" process (a note is put next to your entry in the baptismal register to say that you have now left the church). The process is called a Formal Act of Defection, and the first step is to write to your local bishop requesting this.

Eoin
Hi Eoin,

You might not be all too happy about this:
If the bishop or parish priest decides that the individual has indeed made a formal act of defection from the Catholic Church - making a decision on this matter will normally require a meeting with the person involved - the fact of this formal act is to be noted in the register of the person's baptism. This annotation, like other annotations in the baptismal register, such as those of marriage or ordination, is unrelated to the fact of the baptism: it is not a "debaptism". The fact of having been baptized remains a fact, and the Catholic Church holds that baptism marks a person with a seal or character that "is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection." [my emphasis]
Taken from the wikipedia article on Formal Defection.

-Neil
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ThinkForYourself
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by ThinkForYourself » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:31 pm

maybe instead of reversing the process it would better to cease it altogether? i mean its an impossible idea but what if someone when they turned 18 or whatever was actually allowed to make their OWN descision to join a particular faith or not! wouldnt that be nice! instead of being forced into it before you can even raise any note of objection!!
Belief is a matter of guess work, Truth is a matter of hard work!!
Scorpio
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by Scorpio » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:18 pm

ThinkForYourself wrote:maybe instead of reversing the process it would better to cease it altogether? i mean its an impossible idea but what if someone when they turned 18 or whatever was actually allowed to make their OWN descision to join a particular faith or not! wouldnt that be nice! instead of being forced into it before you can even raise any note of objection!!
@ Neil:

Interesting. It's still a statement of rejection to the church isn't it?
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. - Anonymous
eoin
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by eoin » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:50 pm

Thanks for the comments.

I would see baptism as only of sociocultural significance (but still something I wanted to address as an adult); the fact that the church see it as of ontological significance is their problem!

Eoin
ThinkForYourself
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by ThinkForYourself » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:55 pm

Scorpio wrote:Interesting. It's still a statement of rejection to the church isn't it?
Ye! i mean what if there wasnt a need for debaptism! if people were allowed to reach an age where they can make a sound descision of their own! Aren't the church supposed to be moral role-models for their followers? if so, why then do they allow, no, encourage people who can't even talk yet to be indoctrinated into a organisation that tells them how to live and brainwashes them into beleiving everything they say is true without considering the possible alternatives! Luckily the catholic church is not as extreme as some churches out there!!
I have a friend who was beaten up in school, by priests none the less, if he answered a question wrong! This was only 6 or 7 years ago!! And he was raised to beleive this was ok?! to me its the most horrible thing you can bestow upon your child! taking away his freedom of thought!!
have i gone somewhat off the point? heh heh! ah well! :wink:
Belief is a matter of guess work, Truth is a matter of hard work!!
Scorpio
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by Scorpio » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:01 am

ThinkForYourself wrote:
Scorpio wrote:Interesting. It's still a statement of rejection to the church isn't it?
Ye! i mean what if there wasnt a need for debaptism! if people were allowed to reach an age where they can make a sound descision of their own! Aren't the church supposed to be moral role-models for their followers? if so, why then do they allow, no, encourage people who can't even talk yet to be indoctrinated into a organisation that tells them how to live and brainwashes them into beleiving everything they say is true without considering the possible alternatives! Luckily the catholic church is not as extreme as some churches out there!!
I have a friend who was beaten up in school, by priests none the less, if he answered a question wrong! This was only 6 or 7 years ago!! And he was raised to beleive this was ok?! to me its the most horrible thing you can bestow upon your child! taking away his freedom of thought!!
have i gone somewhat off the point? heh heh! ah well! :wink:
I have more respect for governmental espionage mind-control brainwashing then I do for the catholic church. They are actually allowed do this?! :|
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. - Anonymous
Neil
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Re: De-Baptism

Post by Neil » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:06 pm

Scorpio wrote:
@ Neil:

Interesting. It's still a statement of rejection to the church isn't it?
Oh, of course. I'm still going to go through with my own Act of Defection. It's just rather obnoxious that their attitude, even when you reject their religion formally, through their own process, is "Oh well, you're still Catholic as far as we're concerned." Obnoxious, but not surprising, I guess.
"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it."
- Terry Pratchett
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