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De-Baptism

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:14 am
by IrishKnight
http://www.secularism.org.uk/debaptism.html Pitty such things don't work like that....

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:22 am
by FXR
Nice one. I think the best place for the cert should be on the front gate of your house.

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:51 pm
by Gar
Hi All, This is my first post on the forum but I've been lurking for a while !
have any of you seen this story ?

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/ ... /debaptism

I was wondering if anyone was aware of a similar process here in Ireland as I'd quite like to make it official so to speak.. Thanks for any info in advance

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:39 pm
by ucantcmeimsmilin
Not trying to be dismiss the idea (or stop someone from answering your question - I would not know the answer), but why do you feel you need an official recognition of what you believe from a discredited illogical organization? I would not bother to do the paperwork. However, if it makes you feel better go ahead.

On the other hand, for statistical purposes I would like people to fill out the census with the word "atheist" or for those people who like sitting on fences "agnostic".

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:06 pm
by bipedalhumanoid
ucantcmeimsmilin wrote:Not trying to be dismiss the idea (or stop someone from answering your question - I would not know the answer), but why do you feel you need an official recognition of what you believe from a discredited illogical organization? I would not bother to do the paperwork. However, if it makes you feel better go ahead.

On the other hand, for statistical purposes I would like people to fill out the census with the word "atheist" or for those people who like sitting on fences "agnostic".
Hello. Because of the way census question is worded , writing the word 'atheist' in the box (which is labelled 'Other Religion') suggests that atheism is a religion. It makes more sense to tick 'No Religion'.

I'd like to excommunicate myself from the church for these reasons...
1) some people I know think my baptism makes me a catholic regardless of my actual beliefs and they are quite smug about it
2) It would make a bold statement to the people implicated in point 1 if I gain an excommunication.
3) The catholic church sometimes use their baptism numbers to make political gains and one of those numbers include me.
4) It's a nice way to send a big fuck you to an organisation I despise.

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:45 pm
by ucantcmeimsmilin
Bipedal, you do have a point, but I would still argue that your time and effort could be better spent.

I ticked the No Religion and wrote in Atheist in the box. (Not exactly following instructions, but hell, why not - never was good at answering stupid or badly phrased questions. Their ethnicity question was badly worded as well.)
1) some people I know think my baptism makes me a catholic regardless of my actual beliefs and they are quite smug about it
Sometimes I wonder about people like that. Alas, I have met them too, but I do try and avoid them. I suppose people who think like that have difficulty putting an argument together. I cannot see any logic in their argument that you are a member of an organisation if you say you are not, and there is no point in arguing with people who don't accept logic.
2) It would make a bold statement to the people implicated in point 1 if I gain an excommunication.
You would be in good company if you did get ex-communicated :) Given the effort, why not actively do something else where a side effect would be getting ex-communicated? Maybe what I am trying to say is going through your old church's official channels could be seen as legitimising their insane system. It might be more productive campaigning with one of the groups to get them out of education or the health system in this country (if you do want to go to that much effort)
3) The catholic church sometimes use their baptism numbers to make political gains and one of those numbers include me.
If they do this actually shows an inherent dishonesty in the Roman Catholic Church. Why am I not suprised? Reading their own "commandments" I believe the phrase is "bearing false witness"...
4) It's a nice way to send a big fuck you to an organisation I despise.
Despising them is not productive, try to think of them as a large organization of misguided individuals who are unintentionally a danger to civilization. I am afraid they wont lose any sleep over individuals, so the message will be lost on them. More is the pity.

Good luck in doing it if you decide to go ahead!

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:01 am
by bipedalhumanoid
ucantcmeimsmilin wrote:Bipedal, you do have a point, but I would still argue that your time and effort could be better spent.
Well I didn't say I was going to do all the things it takes to get excommunicated... just that I had a desire to be excommunicated. If it were as simple as sending a letter i'd do it. But it isn't.
ucantcmeimsmilin wrote:
1) some people I know think my baptism makes me a catholic regardless of my actual beliefs and they are quite smug about it
Sometimes I wonder about people like that. Alas, I have met them too, but I do try and avoid them. I suppose people who think like that have difficulty putting an argument together. I cannot see any logic in their argument that you are a member of an organisation if you say you are not, and there is no point in arguing with people who don't accept logic.
What if the person is the one who got you baptised in the first place?
ucantcmeimsmilin wrote:
2) It would make a bold statement to the people implicated in point 1 if I gain an excommunication.
You would be in good company if you did get ex-communicated :) Given the effort, why not actively do something else where a side effect would be getting ex-communicated? Maybe what I am trying to say is going through your old church's official channels could be seen as legitimising their insane system. It might be more productive campaigning with one of the groups to get them out of education or the health system in this country (if you do want to go to that much effort)
I think you misunderstand the process. To get excommunicated you have to do exactly what you suggested... except you also have to be public figure as well... although aparently Adolf Hitler wasn't worthy of an excommunication.
ucantcmeimsmilin wrote:
3) The catholic church sometimes use their baptism numbers to make political gains and one of those numbers include me.
If they do this actually shows an inherent dishonesty in the Roman Catholic Church. Why am I not suprised? Reading their own "commandments" I believe the phrase is "bearing false witness"...
The catholic church are responsible for many questionable acts. I agree. The unwritten doctrine seems to be 'the outcome justifies the means'.
ucantcmeimsmilin wrote:
4) It's a nice way to send a big fuck you to an organisation I despise.
Despising them is not productive, try to think of them as a large organization of misguided individuals who are unintentionally a danger to civilization. I am afraid they wont lose any sleep over individuals, so the message will be lost on them. More is the pity.

Good luck in doing it if you decide to go ahead!
[/quote]

They won't be sleeping to well if the non-religious made a habit of doing this. Church attendences are down and they're bothered by that... and since he census is a farce they might be very surprised to find out how many of us there are. I think they'd be severely bothered if people started requesting excommunication.

My main point here is, the 'why bother' argument that i've heard so many times doesn't hold any water. There 's plenty of reason to go ahead with this kind of initiative and it pisses me off that the catholic church even as a right to say no to someone who wants to be excommunicated.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:03 am
by bipedalhumanoid
In Ireland the non-religious are being forced to get their kids baptised or they risk not being able to find school places. That absolutely sucks and that's another reason to excommunicate as an adult.

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:08 am
by Martha
Gar wrote:Hi All, This is my first post on the forum but I've been lurking for a while !
have any of you seen this story ?

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/ ... /debaptism

I was wondering if anyone was aware of a similar process here in Ireland as I'd quite like to make it official so to speak.. Thanks for any info in advance
The notion of "de-baptising" oneself is merely validating the nonsensical ritual of baptising in the first place!

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:14 am
by FXR
bipedalhumanoid wrote:

I'd like to excommunicate myself from the church for these reasons...
1) some people I know think my baptism makes me a catholic regardless of my actual beliefs and they are quite smug about it
2) It would make a bold statement to the people implicated in point 1 if I gain an excommunication.
3) The catholic church sometimes use their baptism numbers to make political gains and one of those numbers include me.
4) It's a nice way to send a big fuck you to an organisation I despise.
When it comes to the people you mention in 1 you can gleefully point out to them that by the same token the church can't deny Hitler and Mussolini were also catlicks.
Neither were ever excommunicated.