Jehovah's Wittnesses

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Buzz
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by Buzz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:31 am

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:More name calling. If you want to re-write your post without the personal abuse which, if you bothered to read the rules of this forum you will find is not acceptable, then I will reply to it.
Dont call me a liar

'Either the Jehovah's Witness sect tends to attract an excess of pre-psychotic individuals who may then break down, or else being a Jehovah's Witness is itself a stress that may precipitate psychosis. "'Possibly both of these factors operate together ...'"
nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:38 am

I am afraid if something is said that is untrue and there is good reason to think it untrue, I have no choice but to point that out.

This is worlds apart from engaging in a campaign of personal abuse and school yard rhetoric. If you can not tell the difference between the two then the sooner the mods here enforce the rules and ban you for breaking them the better, the same as you have been banned multiple times from forums before.
Buzz
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by Buzz » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:41 am

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:I am afraid if something is said that is untrue and there is good reason to think it untrue, I have no choice but to point that out.

This is worlds apart from engaging in a campaign of personal abuse and school yard rhetoric. If you can not tell the difference between the two then the sooner the mods here enforce the rules and ban you for breaking them the better, the same as you have been banned multiple times from forums before.
You call me a liar and I take that personally and I am insulted.

I have spoken the truth - and if you cant see it then there is no hope for you.

These are my points - none of which concern exploding bananas or smurfs or goldfish:

Schizos commit between 5 and 10% of all homicides
Schizos are 10 times - 1000% more likely to commit a homicide than a non schizo
JWs have 300% more schizos than the general rate
Jws have 400% more paranoid schizos than the general rate
The JW religion has 100% more mental illness than the general rate

Therefore, when a JW knocks on your door
a. they are 100% more likely to be mentally ill
b. they are 300% more likely to be schizo
c. they are 400% more likely to be a paranoid schizo
d. they are therefore more likely to commit a homicide than a non JW
e. they are therefore dangerous going door to door converting people to a cult that makes people crazy.
Fiammetta
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by Fiammetta » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:53 am

Endless repetition of debunked terms and personal insult.

What else have you got in the way of response to the critiques, Buzz? Apart from ten pages of nothing.

Tell us what you know about selection error and covariance, with examples drawn from your own posts.

Will you retract your claim of contagious schizophrenia?

With what organisation did you work in Alice Springs? What was your job description and role?
nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:00 am

An aside for the people who actually are interested in the condition of Schizophrenia…

Schizophrenia is an umbrella term containing a vast number of varying conditions. The majority of these are benign in terms of being a predictor of violence or inability to function in society.

The conditions are not contagious, nor is it possible to be the cause of them in your loved ones. If anyone tells you a group is spreading the illness therefore they are either outright lying or they simply have not got the first notion what the condition actually is.

If someone lies and tells you they have worked with such people and they are violent then you know instantly that either that person never worked with them and knows nothing about them, or they have been themselves duped by “Selective Sampling”

What I mean by "Selective Sampling" is that a person working with them in an asylum would not be working with a random sample of all Schizophrenics, but in fact working with a very specific sampling of them… the ones who’s conditions warranted being institutionalised in the first place and of course they are dangerous.

You will see for example in this thread the opportunistic statistic being quoted that Mental Health workers are killed by such people in acts of violence and hence such work is statistically more dangerous when compared to other careers.

Of course it is! What this disgusting use of statistics is engaged in is an opportunistic lack of normalisation. The figures quoted do not normalise for the fact that Mental Health Workers have to deal with the more extreme conditions that fall under the umbrella term “Schizophrenic”. They are more rarely exposed to the benign ones.

If your career brings you in contact with a risky subset of a huge group X then of course your career is a risky one. What is being done here however is taking figures from that sub-set and then extrapolating them to Group X as a whole. It is a complete twisting of the field of statistics to garner a result that otherwise is not borne out in reality and is nothing short of disgusting.

The canard being engaged in is compounded by the use of conviction statistics. Schizophrenics face many disabilities when it comes to avoiding convictions for crimes. Their condition makes it more difficult for them to “get away with it” and biases towards their condition will influence a jury. We can therefore expect a relatively high conviction rate from this group. The extrapolation however that therefore the % of convictions is automatically mapped to the % of people actually engaged in that crime is again a bastardisation of Statistical Methodologies. It breaks the core tenant of Statistics that correlation does not imply causation.

If anything makes Schizophrenia a dangerous disease it is the public misunderstanding of it… a misunderstanding that is fuelled by bigoted twisting of statistics to boost public misconceptions already held. Understanding given to people with the condition is the key predictor as to why some religions welcome them with open arms and they in turn flock into those religions. Ignorance and bigotry as displayed on this thread drives them into the arms of groups like the JWs… not some sinister aspect of the JWs attracting them.

And the understanding they find there helps them and renders them safe, which is why no significant examples can be found to support the statistical claims being made on this thread. JWs are X times as likely to be Schizophrenic and therefore Y times more likely to be violent… yet the user can find little or no actual cases of JW violence being perpetrated. Why? Because his bigotry examples the kind that drives them into the arms of JWs and the understanding they find when they arrive keeps them from violence. The user has made a claim, his claim makes a prediction as all good Scientific Claims do... but the prediction fails to hold.

Despite all the predictions being made by the thesis that JWs should be many times more likely to be violent, no specific cases are forthcoming at all. Not 100, not 10, not even one... let alone the amount required to actually sustain the prediction being made by the theory.

If the predictions of a Theory do not hold then abandon the Theory. Everyone knows this yet some choose to hold on to it anyway and resort to insult to support it when all else fails. It IS lies. It IS ignorance. And it IS a canard.
Davo
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by Davo » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:32 am

Davo wrote:
Buzz wrote:As Schizophrenics commit between 5 and 10% of all homicides, and they are 10 times more likely to commit homicide than a non schizophrenic
Buzz, can you be more specific because otherwise your statistics mean shit.

What types of schizophrenia are we talking about?

Paranoid schizophrenia?
Hebephrenic schizophrenia?
Catatonic schizophrenia?
Undifferentiated schizophrenia?
Residual-type schizophrenia?
An explanation of Logical Fallacies : http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies ----- ferox deo vacuus vinco
Regens Küchl
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by Regens Küchl » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:03 pm

http://www.freeminds.org/humor/anecdote ... style.html
In the Louisville Kentucky congregation there was a couple, the wife was a regular pioneer, the husband was an elder and they had two kids, a boy and a girl. One night when the parents were practicing clean acts of reproduction little Mike runs from the kids bedroom with a pale face - IT ... IT'S THE MOUSE!! he stutters. When the parents run to the room, little Naomi was

crying under the bed and in the middle of the room there was a Logitech mouse clicking vigorously and angrily at her. The demonic mouse was burned in the fire, although it was still hissing and double-clicking when burned.

A brother that had been just appointed the Accounts Servant in Charleston, Georgia, had just came to the meeting from a computer show with his new mouse that was in his briefcase. He opened it to get his accounts report that was neatly stored between the pages of "Hustler" magazine, when the mouse suddenly jumped and tied his cable tightly around servant's neck. He fell from the seat from the shock and started running out, mouse cable strangling him. Brothers helped to release the poor brother with wire-cutters just before he would have passed out. Mouse was clicking vigorously. "It was like a rattlesnake back in Texas", one servant noted with a distinguishable accent.

(courtesy of former CC, now Stacey B.)
Smurf story:

Paul's Uncle Mark, who is an elder, told him about an occasion that apparently happened in his congregation involving a smurf doll. As the story goes, a new family who had just started studying, were attending the Saturday meeting with their young son. Half way through the meeting , the smurf doll apparentley stood up and declared, " I have had enough of this shit!" and walked out of the meeting on it's lonesome. So it seems even smurfs can detect crap when they hear it ! LOL!

Big guy angel story:

This story is so popular amongst JW land ! The story goes that two sisters were out witnessing , knocked on some guy's door that had just killed his wife. Later on when the police finally got the dude, he was asked why he didn't kill the two sisters, to which he replied, " Because they had two big blokes standing behind them'. OOhh freaky! We live in Australia, it was funny for me to read a similiar story on the net about the guy who had just killed the Avon lady, but left the lone sister alone for basically the same reason !

Throwing away demonised objects:

Paul's father bought his mother a geisha doll back from Japan. After recieving this doll, things started to go wrong within the marriage, and eventually they went their separate ways. Mother blamed the doll for the start of the marital problems. Mother started smoking the day father left , and had been DF. Mother started a new relationship with her now-elder-husband, and the day she threw the doll away, she gave up smoking.

Kylie
Hi Randy,

Here's some true "smurf" stories (i myself witnessed):

Smurf Story 1: One fellow Witness woman I knew was very paranoid about the "demonic" nature of the Smurfs. Occasionally, she'd babysit for her neighbors (who were "worldly") and who often played with their kids in a "smurf" kiddie pool. The Witness woman never allowed the kids in the pool while she watched them, always feeling as if the pool might make the toddlers slip and fall or try to drown them.

Smurf Story #2: One Witness mother brought her 3 year old to the supermarket, where the baby always fussed, stuck sitting in the shopping cart. The woman left her child for a few seconds to grab things off the shelf. When she returned, her child had a 3 inch Smurf bendy toy. The good Witness mother immediately took the doll and put it aside, thinking her child grabbed it from somewhere. The taking of toy made the child cry of course, but the mother would not relent. However, over the course of the shopping trip, the child somehow gained access to the toy two more times. The third time, the mother realized that the doll was following her and her baby and that demonic forces were trying to possess the child. The mother grabbed her kid, left the cart and practically ran from the store. Later, I who was employed at the supermarket, discovered one the employees who was stocking shelves kept giving the child the toy so it wouldn't fuss so bad.

"Demonized artifact" story: One young couple reported they were having a problem with things "disappearing" around the house. Car keys, money, etc... They began to feel paranoid, unsafe, as if a "presence" were in the house with them, oppressing them. Finally they dug around in the attic and found... (dramatic pause)... a rolled up American Flag. As soon as the flag was put in the garbage... both man and woman felt as if Jehovah had indeed saved the day by leading them to the "evil demonized artifact."

Henry
http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/ ... murfs.html
Word on the JW street was the Smurfs were deominzed.
We were not supposed to watch Smurfs, have any merchandise, dolls, etc. There were many rumors about the Smurfs, but the one I remember the most was a smurf coming to life at a Kingdom Hall. I remember parents having a Smurf BBQs (burn the smurfs) to take that element out of their homes and keep the demons away. I also hear that the word "Smurf" means falling angel = demon. I even heard that the blue color had a Work on the JW street was that the Smurfs were deominzed.
We were not supposed to watch Smurfs, have any merchandise, dolls, etc. There were many rumors about the Smurfs, but the one I remember the most was a smurf coming to life at a Kingdom Hall.
I really don't know who started the rumors and never seen it published in any of the publications, but I remember my mother sitting down with me and telling me never to watch the Smurfs on TV ever again. She combed the home looking for merchandise.
Cabbage Patch Dolls were supposed to be evil too, but it didn't get as much airplay was the Smurfs.
I don't know about any of you, but I remember in the '80s, people were obsessed with demons. No Smurfs, Cabbage Patch, (some people claimed Rainbow Bright and Strawberry Shortcake was demonic too), be VERY careful while shopping at yard sales and thrift stores, if you suspect anything in your home, burn it. It was like a children's toy and used furniture witch hunt.
I just finished reading a book called "I'm Perfect, You're Doomed." It was written by a former JW. Here is an excerpt from a chapter that talks about the Smurfs:

"The moratorium on Smurfs began after a young boy brought a plush Smurf to his Kingdom Hall. The doll immediately began to shake and moan and otherwise cause a bit of a ruckus. "Sh*t, f*ck, sh*t!" said the Smurf. "I have had enough of this sh*t!" (THIS PART MADE ME CRACK UP! HOW MANY OF US WANTED TO UTTER THE SAME LINE?) "Jehovah! Jehovah!," cried the little boy, evoking the name that causes even the knees of Satan himself to tremble. Upon hearing Jehovah's name made audible, the evil azure demon jumped right out of the boy's lap and ran down the aisle of the Kingdom Hall screaming the word "sh*t" repeatedly until he reached the heavy doors of the main exit. At this point, one would surmise that the Smurf either stood on a crate or asked an unassuming elder to let him out. Then he ran down the sidewalk and burst into flames."

"The tale of the plushy demon spread through Jehovah's Witness culture with memelike voracity. Soon, similar urban legends were popping up in Kingdom Halls from London to Los Angeles. There were stories of how a child with Smurf bedsheets awoke one night to find silk-screened characters jumping off his comforter and running around the bedroom. Smurf dolls followed children around stores, giggled demoniacally, trying to trip them down the stairs, or drown them in swimming pools. One story involved a plush doll attempting to smother a toddler while she slept, a Satanic ritual now more commonly referred to as sudden infant death syndrome. "

The scientific theory is that the majority of witnesses will believe anything. There was talk at an assembly that had some experiences from Africa. One was were a witchdoctor made the corpse of a murdered man sit up and point to the person who had murdered him, an actually mentioned zombie corpses getting on public transport. I don't know if there was some kind of hysteria around that time but there was also a list of songs, albums and bands with reason why they shouldn't be listened to, including backwards message, what the songs really mean, what the names of the bands really means.

Again from the platform at an assembly one 'expereince' was of a boy who started holding his head and and going into a fit saying 'can't you hear it?' until they took it off the record player and, yes you guessed it, burned it.

Another involved a mattress which somehow they had linked to demonic activity, so they, you guessed again, burned it. It wouldn't burn. Eventually they did something and it did burn just before it let out an unearthly moan.

Another one I heard at an assembly was about someone who had demons banging at the door trying to get in for nights on end. Obviously demons do not know how door handles work. I think this one was cured eventually by shouting Jehovah.

Just to emphasise, these where stories I heard from the platform at the assemblies.
Regens Küchl
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by Regens Küchl » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:10 pm

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/expe ... rf-content
Does anyone have any Dub urban legend stories?

I remember a story running rampant when I was in my pre-teenage years that went a little something like this:

Word on the street was that a young child went to the circuit assembly with his parents. The child brought a little stuffed toy with him. However, this wasn't just any cute cuddly stuffed toy. This was one of those little blue demons that worldy people call Smurfs. Anyways, the stuffed little Smurf, got up in the middle of the assembly and walked out the door. Apparently the demon inside the stuffed toy could no longer take the "light" and "truth" inside the assembly hall and had to get out with the quickness.
. . .
When I was little, I heard a lot about the smurfs. One story was when a babysitter brought smurfs over for a little witness kid to play with and when the parents came home, the smurfs were dancing on the bed and there was a newspaper levitating. So scary!!! I remember being on a RV or study and the TV show Smurfs was on and normally I watched TV at other people's houses because we didn't have one, but I remember trying to not look at the screen because satan's minions were on prime-time cartoon morning! Such a test of faith.
munsterdevil
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by munsterdevil » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:28 pm

@ Regens, you could just leave the links and we'll follow from there :roll:
Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. Arthur C. Clarke
Hemingway
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Re: Jehovah's Wittnesses

Post by Hemingway » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:33 pm

Just a suggestion.... but it seems this thread has gone as far as it can go. Both sides (well Buzz V everyone else) have made their case and disagree. Maybe a lock down is the best option i.e. lock the thread?

I cant see the sense in everyone repeating the same things over and over again personally. Some good research has gone into the thread so I would hate to see it descend into a trolling/slagging match.

It has hovered around that area in places.
Dont try to fix me, I'm not broken
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