Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

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Elodie
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Elodie » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:27 am

"I hope you are not saying that be against islam is racist?"

No I'm not saying that opposing Islam is wrong but opposing Muslims is. Opposing anyone because of their beliefs is wrong, whether those beliefs are nonsense or not. I love the implicate threat in the way you worded that by the way.

"I also believe that all religions evolve in the same way and therefore I have the theory that the islam is now where christianity was in the time of the crusades."

Sorry you're theory is wrong, the crusades had almost nothing to do with religion they have more in common with the modern Israel/Palestine situation. Religion was used as an excuse to justify what they were doing doing but it wasn't the cause of the crusades, the Ottoman invasion of the Byrantine Empire was. Granted theology was used by both sides but like I said it wasn't a causal factor. And Christianity at the time, Europe at the time, was a barbarian hovel compared to the Islamic world of the middle ages if anything Islam has devolved since then into Islamism.


"I cannot agree with someones culture when it includes that all gay people should be slayed or that it is fine to beat your wife if she is not obidiant. (Just a few examples of what imams preech)"

That was our culture just a few years ago you know. It wasn't all gay pride parades and women's shelters. To ceratin people it still is. I don't disagree with what you've said above but I thinking you're missing a word. It should be "SOME imams preach". Don't get me wrong, and some people could, I still disagree with Islam but I don't tar all Muslims with the same brush like that. I know quite a few Muslims, I work with an immigration charity (I should really be at work now but I'm....sick :roll: ) so I meet them all the time and I have never met anyone who fits the sort of crazy Muslim stereotype people like to go on about. They're people like you or I with a similar moral code but a completely distinct cultural background that has very little to do with mad imams. I think you're being a bit sensationalist.

"The Islam however is not a culture. It depends on where the person comes from what culture he has."

No it doesn't! Cultural life does not have geographical bounds like that! This is basically the same thing what's his face above was saying, the fella with the weird ideas about rainbow cultures in Ireland. What you are saying, in effect, is that upon entering a country everyone should abandon their own cultures or at least suppress them so as not to offend the rest of us which is fundamentally anti-democratic and a fairly conservative view point. And saying its not a culture, it is! African Muslims and Asian Muslims and Irish Muslims all have a common ground, a common cultural background. Even if we disagree with it we have to at least see it as a commonality.
Tulip1
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Tulip1 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:09 pm

[/quote]
No I'm not saying that opposing Islam is wrong but opposing Muslims is. Opposing anyone because of their beliefs is wrong, whether those beliefs are nonsense or not. I love the implicate threat in the way you worded that by the way.
[/quote]

I am sorry what threat???????

I am origanaly from the Netherlands.
It should be "SOME imams preach". Don't get me wrong, and some people could, I still disagree with Islam but I don't tar all Muslims with the same brush like that. I know quite a few Muslims]
Sorry that should be most and some not. I should not generalise. I was not taring all muslims with the same brush, I was tarring all imams with the same brush. Should not all muslims be honouring the sharia law in which the word of a woman is worth half that of a man?

When a film director got killed (because he made a film on domestic violence within the muslim world) not one muslim organisation said that this was wrong. Instead the most moderate muslim spokesman said that is what get when you critisize the islam.


No it doesn't! Cultural life does not have geographical bounds.
It actually does, very much so. Irish catholism is very differnet from the Dutch or the German or Mexican. Old cultures from the area's people live in always enter the religion. Also Dutch culture is very much different from the Flemish etc etc. Art and Politics are geographical, history is too. Three very big influences on ones culture. Don't mix up religion with culture. While religion can be part of a culture, religion it self is not.
Sorry you're theory is wrong, the crusades had almost nothing to do with religion they have more in common with the modern Israel/Palestine situation. Religion was used as an excuse to justify what they were doing doing but it wasn't the cause of the crusades, the Ottoman invasion of the Byrantine Empire was. Granted theology was used by both sides but like I said it wasn't a causal factor. And Christianity at the time, Europe at the time, was a barbarian hovel compared to the Islamic world of the middle ages if anything Islam has devolved since then into Islamism.
Jihad has not much to do with religion either, it is more political against the west (and granted they have good reasons to be). Religion is always used as an tool to get people to fight a war. I never stated that the crusades were religious or not. Just that the religions evolve the same.
That was our culture just a few years ago you know. It wasn't all gay pride parades and women's shelters
And that makes it OK?I will still not agree with any culture or religion which is not for equal right for woman and gays. My culture (Dutch, very geographical! :wink: ) used to be like that in the 50's.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Feardorcha
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Feardorcha » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:01 pm

So, is Islam a culture or just a religion?

A religion is something definite - it has members and a man in charge with a funny hat - but a culture is a more woolly. People even refer to me as being 'cultured' just because I don't respond to vulgar abuse.

But why would the followers of a particular religion want to be regarded as a distinct 'cultural' group? I suspect it is so they can then demand separate schools, separate laws, separate taxes and immunity from prosecution for their nasty practises.

To concede that an association of men, and their families, from Nigeria, Indonesia, Pakistan, Morocco and elsewhere - countries with diverse languages, music, dance, arts and such like - constitute a cultural group is stretching the meaning of the word beyond breaking point.

Just when the Great Evil of Catholic control is breaking apart, we would be very foolish to allow another take its place. Calling Islam a culture is giving it a special place in our society it does not deserve. It's a religion; let it wither away like one!
Tulip1
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Tulip1 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:57 am

http://maryamnamazie.blogspot.com/2011/ ... l?spref=fb

interesting article about islamism from an ex-muslim (Maryam Namazie)
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Feardorcha
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Feardorcha » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:22 pm

Yo Tulip, did you see a story yesterday of moves in Tulipland to ban the ritual killing of animals by Jews and Muslims? I saw it on TV (must have been Al Jazeera) but for the life of me I can't find it today.
aZerogodist
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by aZerogodist » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:11 pm

My ONLY problem with this is, isn't there a ban on religious advertisement, so have newstalk broke that ban?

There are many shades of Grey, and I think the ones that fear or should fear fundamentalist of any religion the most, are the moderate adherents of that religion.
Look at what happened in the Swat valley, the locals welcomed the Taliban, when they first took over, getting back to real Islam, it didn’t take long for them to change their minds, they took up arms against them with the aid of the military, and now are trying to rebuild schools and the ski-resort that was destroyed (because it was against Islam to ski ?)

Just keep in mind religionists may see Atheism as their enemy and would encourage Atheism to be anti-religion, it would be great if atheist-Muslims or those on the verge of wanting to leave the religion, which couldn't be easy, coming to this site for guidance.
Tulip1
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Tulip1 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:12 pm

@ Feardorcha No I didn't see that, they have been busy with that for a while but never succeeded banning it on.... religous grounds. I will ask my mother when she is back from holiday.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Feardorcha
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Feardorcha » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:22 pm

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/2 ... 0320110623
Wilders has been acquitted of insulting Islam etc. A good day for freedom of speech in the Nederlands.
What can we do to get our own anti-blasphemy law repealed? Didn't the government parties promise a referendum?
Tulip1
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Tulip1 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:37 pm

The case was seen by some as a test of free speech in a country which has a long tradition of tolerance and blunt talk, but where opposition to immigration, particularly from Muslim or predominantly Muslim countries, is on the rise.
A very polite way of saying we are rude :lol: :lol: :lol:
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Tulip1
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Re: Islamists advertise Islamic Cultural Exhibition on Newstalk

Post by Tulip1 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:52 pm

Feardorcha wrote:Yo Tulip, did you see a story yesterday of moves in Tulipland to ban the ritual killing of animals by Jews and Muslims? I saw it on TV (must have been Al Jazeera) but for the life of me I can't find it today.
Yes just spoke to my mother, the proposal is: ritual killing of animals will be forbidden unless they can prove the animal does not feel it if the slaughter in a non conventional way.

http://www.rnw.nl/africa/article/cultur ... ughter-ban
Jewish and Muslim organisations are not happy with the compromise. They say it does not protect the right to ritual slaughter as such, but puts the future of kosher and halal slaughter in the hands of scientists
And that would be bad ofcourse because everyone knows scientist are the scum of the earth because they want evidence and other impractical things.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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