David quinn doesn't like me!

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Tulip1
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David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by Tulip1 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:35 pm

David Quinn of the IONA Institute gave a talk this yearin Rome
> this year. The talk was attended by the President and he mentions me. Marks mailed this to me. Maybe she can posts the link for the full document (it's 12 pages)

"As for faith-based schools, these are regularly accused of being ‘sectarian’ and even of
practising ‘educational apartheid’.
Indeed a new document from the Irish Human Rights Commission suggests that denominational
schools could be in breach of human rights because the ethos of a denominational school can
permeate the whole school making it impossible for a child to escape it.
A Dutch father in Co Leitrim used this type of argument against the local Catholic school. He
had withdrawn his child from religion class but was annoyed when he heard his son was in class
for morning prayers and when the Angelus was said.
The child could, of course, be removed from class during prayers as well, but there is an
argument that this would make the child feel too excluded from too many of the activities of the
school and that the best answer is to make the schools non-denominational.
This kind of thinking goes a long way towards explaining the original ECtHR crucifix decision of
2009 and similar campaigns to rename Christmas holidays and Christmas trees, and against
displaying cribs in public places, namely that certain symbols or actions are by their nature
exclusionary.
However, surely we can see that there is a big difference between symbols or actions that are
directly intended to make a particular group feel threatened and symbols or actions that might
represent a particular belief but are not directed against anyone"
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Bik
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by Bik » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:47 pm

A Dutch father in Co Leitrim
I think he deliberately stated where you are from and where you live so that his audience would question your sanity :lol:
"Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion." Superintendent Chalmers
aiseiri47
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by aiseiri47 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:16 pm

It's great how one minute you want to send your child to school and prevent exposure to religion without having to take them out of class every hour, and the next you want to rename Christmas (probably to Winterval or something and gather all the baby Jesuses and burn them in a big on O'Connell Street.
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by funkyderek » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:22 pm

aiseiri47 wrote:It's great how one minute you want to send your child to school and prevent exposure to religion without having to take them out of class every hour, and the next you want to rename Christmas (probably to Winterval or something and gather all the baby Jesuses and burn them in a big on O'Connell Street.
Ah yes! The burning of the baby Jesuses (Jesi?) is my favourite part of Winterval. :wink:
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Feardorcha
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by Feardorcha » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:49 pm

The child could, of course, be removed from class during prayers as well
Correct me if I'm wrong Tulip, but surely this was not an option. I know in my local indoctrination institute the prayers are snuck in every now and then and the idea of ringing a parent regularly throughout the day would be impossible.
Tulip1
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by Tulip1 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:40 pm

He conveniently forgets few things.

Firstly that on the enrolment form it asked me if I wanted my son to be taught the catholic faith. He also forgets that I was never told about these prayer and that they were not mentioned in the enrolment package either, let alone that there was an option to remove him during these prayers.

When confronted the teacher did not want to tell my son he did not had to participate eventhough it is school policy he doesn't has to. Not to speak about the fact that religion is intergrated in all subject during the day.

Sadly the ruling from the ombudsman for children is confidential so I can't tell you or David Quinn that I won.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Marks
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by Marks » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:01 pm

http://www.ionainstitute.ie/assets/file ... 20talk.pdf

The above is the link to the talk given by David Quinn of the Iona Institute.

Of course he forgot to mention that young children imitate and will just repeat the prayers. What does he expect them to do? Is the teacher to say to the young child, hey Patrick stop reciting prayers down there you are not Catholic. Hey Muhammad enough of that I told you before stop reciting Catholic prayers.

David Quinn is busy giving talks about the right freedom of religion in Ireland maybe he could talk about the Muslims students that are forced into religion in Catholic Schools in Ireland. For that matter he could talk about the children of non-religious parents who are forced to recite prayers and forced into religious ceremonies.

http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobser ... iation.pdf


“As foreigners and parents of Irish children living in Ireland, we are the most affected with the educational system in Ireland which is based on catholic ethos and spirit, some of the Muslim students and their parents in our community, experienced difficulties in catholic’s primary and secondary schools, some of the students were forced to attended mass in the churches and to participate in religion classes, which is contrary to their belief and conscience, consequently they felt discriminated against and that their right as human was violated. Some of them were expelled and some were asked to leave, many families and students from other faiths are suffering in silence, and they have no-choice but to enrol their children in catholic schools (96% of schools are denominational), moreover some of the schools and colleges have changed their enrolment policies recently, to prioritise catholic students and to prevent student from other faiths to be enrolled in their schools.
We would like to emphasis on the rights of Irish students from other faiths in Schools and colleges under the patronage of the Catholic Church. For the time being with such economics downturn, in our opinion the diversity within schools can be accommodated as follows;
1. The enrolment policies of the schools and colleges that are prioritising catholic students should be changed. (first come first served regardless their religion or background)
2. Students from other faiths should not be forced to participate or attend religion classes.
3. Students from other faiths should not be forced to participate or attend prayer at the beginning/end of the school’s day.
4. Students from other faiths should feel welcomed, valued and equally treated in catholic schools.
5. Students from other faiths should be allowed and encouraged to learn and practice their own religion by providing them with religion teachers and prayer room, where there is sufficient demand.

In our opinion based in our experience within Muslim and Catholic schools, we believe that the way the schools are managed need to be reviewed, we failed to understand to as how group of volunteers (Board of management) have more power on education and management of schools than Minister of education himself. “
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by Sieghardt » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:16 pm

Interesting that you bring this up, literally my last click before coming here was reading an article by him claiming the riots in the UK were due to a lack of religious belief :roll:
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by sueH » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:04 pm

[quote="Marks"]For that matter he could talk about the children of non-religious parents who are forced to recite prayers and forced into religious ceremonies.

We would like to emphasis on the rights of Irish students from other faiths in Schools and colleges under the patronage of the Catholic Church. For the time being with such economics downturn, in our opinion the diversity within schools can be accommodated as follows;

2. Students from other faiths should not be forced to participate or attend religion classes.
3. Students from other faiths should not be forced to participate or attend prayer at the beginning/end of the school’s day.
[quote]
That goes for the teachers too. you are expected to bring your charges to mass and sit through it with them and you have to attend staff days on the school religious ethos and be expected to uphold it and be present for prayers and ceremonies. you have to listen to a daily morning prayer over the intercom that cannot be switched off or muted. it permeates the whole place. images, prayers on walls, statues. I have refused so many times the offer of a holy water wall font in my classroom! The room has holes in the walls of a cupboard that lets a howling breeze through and the same cupboard has vermin traps.
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Re: David quinn doesn't like me!

Post by ctr » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:05 am

It's David Quinn Guys,...No one takes him seriously anymore.

Isn't that right David? :wink:
Each of us is here on earth for a reason, and each of us has a special mission to carry out - Maria Shriver
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