Parachuting Priests

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Marks
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by Marks » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:20 pm

Well done Gavin, great letter.

As far as I can make out there are about 250 Chaplains funded by the state in second level Community Schools and designated Community Colleges. These people are paid the equivalent of a teacher's salary.

The Government are cutting special needs assistants for children with disabilities while at the same time funding Chaplains in second level schools. This is in addition to the Religion teachers. All these Chaplains do is uphold the religious ethos of these schools. I will definitely try to put a some figure on what this is costing the state.
chemicals
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by chemicals » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:22 pm

Marks wrote: The Government are cutting special needs assistants for children with disabilities while at the same time funding Chaplains in second level schools. This is in addition to the Religion teachers. All these Chaplains do is uphold the religious ethos of these schools. I will definitely try to put a some figure on what this is costing the state.
Hmmm we should get this fact more widely known -perhaps a letter to some one connected with the special needs dispute
والقس هو مجنون
nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:04 pm

Marks wrote:Well done Gavin, great letter.

As far as I can make out there are about 250 Chaplains funded by the state in second level Community Schools and designated Community Colleges. These people are paid the equivalent of a teacher's salary.

The Government are cutting special needs assistants for children with disabilities while at the same time funding Chaplains in second level schools. This is in addition to the Religion teachers. All these Chaplains do is uphold the religious ethos of these schools. I will definitely try to put a some figure on what this is costing the state.
See my post above :) It would make a nice follow up post a couple of days after Gavins.
GT
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by GT » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:33 pm

One of my posts went AWOL.

Anyway firstly a few corrections to my letter in the Indo. The pay rates I quoted were 2008 rates and these have now dropped so a baby chaplain starts now on €57,925 and can rise to €65,667 after 15 years while the head chaplain (the one with the dirty knees) is now on €68,190. Full details are here http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/eb9a8 ... an2010.pdf

It is interesting to note the substitute priest pay. Should resident priest not be around for a service then the "sub" gets paid €146.41 for saying a mass or blessing things and also between €22.71 and €105.63 for the numbers attending, he also gets an additional €28.63 for extra religious services. So for an airplane blessing ceremony where all Air Corps members were forced to attend the priest got €280.67 for about an hours work.

As apprentices were were forced to attend mass every week and depending on the NCO/Officer in charge sometimes after marching to the church you could leave and go for breakfast but some of the hardliners would make non believers stand outside the church until mass was over...I rememeber doing this once in the rain....I think forced by the Camp Sergeant Major. One thing I remember a lot is a strange priest coming to say mass because the resident one was visiting his mammy at weekends....see fees for substitute priest above...
Regards,

GT

Faith is following someone else's lies.
GT
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by GT » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:34 pm

Marks,

If the Dept of Education employs 250 chaplains it is a fecking national scandal. It must be costing more than €10 million....will rattle off a letter to Ruari Quinns office....
Regards,

GT

Faith is following someone else's lies.
aZerogodist
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by aZerogodist » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:40 pm

http://asti.ie/operation-of-schools/man ... ve-sector/

Chaplain Pay:
Community school/comprehensive
Paid by Dept Education & Science

Community Collage
Paid by VEC
Marks
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by Marks » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:06 pm

I’m afraid Ruairi Quinn cannot do a thing about this. This funding for Chaplains was the subject of a Supreme Court case in 1998 – Campaign to Separate Church and State v Minister for Education. The Supreme Court found that this funding was not unconstitutional. This was for Community and Comprehensive Schools which come under a shared patronage between the VEC and certain religious orders.

Then there is Designated Community Colleges. These colleges come under the full patronage of the VEC. These colleges come under an agreement called the Model Agreement which VEC's have with certain Archdioceses around the country.

Section 12 X of the Model Agreement reads as follows:

“The Committee will appoint a Chaplain nominated by the competent Religious Authority who shall be employed outside the normal quota of the school. He shall be a full-time member of the staff and shall be paid a salary equivalent to that of a teacher in the school.”

The three major political parties in this country have Councillors on the Boards of Management of these schools so they know what is happening. The Councillors sanction the upholding the religious ethos in these schools and don’t do a darn thing to try to protect the children of non-religious parents from the discrimination that is ever present. They are part of the system and they actually have the neck to call these schools multi-denominational. Both these types of schools operate a religious ethos. There is no difference on the ground between them and denominational schools at second level.

The worst thing about this whole situation is that there is the possibility that the Catholic Church could have a case against the State to fund Chaplains in Denominational schools. Read what Prof Gerry Whyte says about this situation in a paper he deliverered last year. We have this paper on Teach don’t preach http://www.teachdontpreach.ie/2011/09/p ... stitution/
It is in the section on prohibition on religious endowment.

“It is far from clear why, historical considerations apart, comprehensive and community schools should be singled out for such favourable treatment and if this arrangement is to be continued, it may be that, in order to avoid constitutional difficulties, State funded chaplains will have to be provided to other denominationally controlled schools.”

I have noticed recently that various parties are calling on the State to fund Chaplains in denominational schools at second level.
GT
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by GT » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:21 pm

Thats depressing...I wonder who did all the negotiating on behalf of the state...Opus Dei or Knights of St. Columbanus
Regards,

GT

Faith is following someone else's lies.
nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:51 am

GTs longer post is on the front page now. Made for a good read, I enjoyed reading and posting it.
Tulip1
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Re: Parachuting Priests

Post by Tulip1 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:40 am

so did I, learned something new in how the RC is engrained in the Irish government
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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