Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

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Dr Raskolnikov
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Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:58 am

I was looking online for an SSPX pamphlet for tulip1, when I came across a book called "Motherhood and Family". Here are some choice extracts from the review:
If mankind is a tree, woman is its roots. If any of these hit home, ladies, Motherhood and Family is talking about it with you:

- Get out of the way while God sanctifies your child through danger and suffering.
- Avoid the discouragement of reforming your husband according to your ideas of (feminine) holiness.
- Multiply the spiritual goods coming from homebirth and breastfeeding.
- Debunk worldly notions of love and romance for your growing girls.
- Invite poverty to be a necessary part of your Family Rule.
- Serve the Church, family, and parish as a single woman.

Motherhood and Family is the book for girls, young ladies, and women of all ages who look to enjoy the privilege of being a woman, or who are prayerfully desiring to discover it or to recover it.
There's more fun to be had on the website, Family Life - Roman Catholic Books. It's easy to forget when Catholicism is so commonplace in Ireland, just how mental it gets if you really buy into it!
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
Hank Stamper
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Hank Stamper » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:08 pm

What's going on here?:
Image

Villainous sneer, flash of leg..."Me? The 13th Duke of Wybourne? Here? In a sixth form girl's dormitory? At three o'clock in the morning? With my reputation? What were they thinking of?"

Those books...wow! Wacko is right.
"It was a blonde. A blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass window."
Dr Raskolnikov
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Location: "In the beginning there was the word, and the word was "word up biatch""

Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:31 am

Indeed Hank, wacko is right... :roll:

Here's my next "wacko update" from the world of traditional catholicism - the evils of natural family planning:

Married couples must have as many children as possible to avoid being sent straight to hell!

According to the church, the benefits of having a load of children is that you'll be so tired from looking after the chizlers, you won't have time for any of that sin mularkey. It's the road to perfect Catholic chastity:

Family planning is the road to HEEELLLLLLL!!!!!11!1eleventyone!!!
Far from being a "lifestyle" or an "exercise in self-control," the systematic use of "natural methods" of birth control, unjustifiable as they are by reasons proportionate to the duty of procreation which they intend to avoid, actually constitute a highway to hell... The profound happiness stemming from the spouses’ mutual collaboration in the service of such pure and delicate beings confers a new meaning to their chastity. The husband faithfully standing by his wife weighed down by hard work and ennobled through her generosity, experiences for her a saintly, even a godly respect for his wife which can scarcely be understood by a man whose partner rejects motherhood as a source of shame and disgrace.
Yeah, where's the harm in Catholicism. What a wonderful moral framework. Bastards. :x
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
aiseiri47
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by aiseiri47 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:34 pm

I hardly believe I'm about to say this but ... in defense of Catholicism... :shock: ... the source that you're quoting is does not adhere to Catholic doctrine. Is this more from SSPX? They were only founded 40 years ago and it's doctrine/ministries aren't recognised by the Church. For some reason, the more recently something was founded, the crazier it seems. (Church of Latter-Day Saints, anyone?)

There is, too, a difference between traditional Catholicism and traditionalist. It's hard for them to be truly traditional when they were founded in the latter 20th century. Rather like how there is the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamists, and then there's actual Muslims.

Just for reference, the Church has no problem with natural methods of family planning.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part Two, Section Three, Chapter Three, Article Six:
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. 158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:159
Not that I want to defend the Church as sane or rational, I just think it's important to recognise there is difference between these splinter traditionalist "Catholics" and the actual Catholic church. For one, they are much crazier. And second of all, it's simply misrepresentation. Like when creationists misrepresent evolution as a theory of chance.

Still a good example of how ridiculous religion can be, and the thread is good for a laugh. But I think we should be clear about whose doctrines these are.
Dr Raskolnikov
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:15 pm

aiseiri47,
I hardly believe I'm about to say this but ... in defense of Catholicism... :shock:
Right so, straight to the lapsed atheist confessional with you! And you can read 3 chapters of "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens as a penance. :wink:
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
aiseiri47
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by aiseiri47 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:25 pm

Dr Raskolnikov
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:24 pm

Well done! You are forgiven your transgressions... you may go in peace. :wink:

Your point is fair enough though! I admit I tarred the RCC by inference with the SSPX brush; however I stand by the point that this kind of traditionalist doctrine is not that far from the dark heart of Catholicism. Pope Benny has reinstated the ex-communicated LeFebvre and his cronies, and has decreed that the traditionalist Tridentine mass can be celebrated in a diocese if the local Bishop agrees. In the meantime the standard RC mass has got quite "lovey-dovey" in recent years and the average churchgoer doesn't need to think too hard about how fundamentally uncivilised their belief system is, until it comes to the big rites (particularly baptism, marriage, funerals and school-based indoctrination).

My own deconversion was initiated by the process of being confronted with the rite of baptism when it came to my son's christening. That made me look into the hideous doctrine of original sin, which in turn caused me to look into the writings and context of St. Augustine, and before you know it "the scales had fallen from my eyes". All it took was one question for the whole edifice to come tumbling down, but it had to be the right question for me... 3 years later and I've never looked back!
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
aiseiri47
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by aiseiri47 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:43 pm

Ah, dear Pope Benny. See, I was never a Catholic under "his rule". I defected before the death of Pope John Paul II, who was more modern and less insane, and never saw Traditionalists as a manifestation of Catholic doctrine but moreso the sort of people who give something else a bad name.

I never saw the two as one, never examined my religion because of these even more bizarre manifestations - my rejection of religion was more... like my body finally rejecting a transplant part. I had one of those passionate struggles to believe because I thought I was supposed to but I never stopped questioning. It was the idea of God I couldn't handle, nevermind the nutjobs who come up with the really creative stuff.

I think because of that, I still view Traditionalisism as separate from "official" Catholicisms; it's in the same way I view Catholicism as different from Protestantism or Christianity different from Islam - I scowl upon all of them pretty equally on the basis that they are all dogmatic nonsense, by I judge their individual madness based on their individual merits.
Dr Raskolnikov
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:56 am

Okay, bearing in mind the constructive criticism :wink: , here's some proper mainstream RCC thinking in action:

LIMBO LIVES!

Limbo is a hypothesis about the permanent status of the unbaptized who die in infancy, too young to have committed personal sins, but not having been freed from original sin. The Vatican says:

"...We have sought to read the signs of the times and to interpret them in the light of the Gospel. Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered... give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptised infants who die will be saved and enjoy the Beatific Vision. We emphasise that these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge... What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of Baptism. [This should not be] taken as qualifying the necessity of Baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church."

The above statement from the Vatican highlights the fact that they have not in fact abolished Limbo. The point of Limbo is that if you're baptised and die free of sin, you get to help god with his narcissistic tendencies and look at him for ever (he can't look at himself all by himself you know!). Those who are unbaptised will have the "stain" of original sin and be denied forever the "Beatific Vision". The Church's latest statement is simply that they "hope" that such infants will in some cases after all be able to see the beatific vision if god whims it.

Limbo is very much open for business!
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
aiseiri47
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by aiseiri47 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:17 pm

Is this the most recent update? Do I remember that they recently got rid of Limbo, are they bringing it back again?

Limbo annoys me because it's basically their best guess to an awkward question. Also, I'm sure I've seen people defending the concept of baptism based on the idea it doesn't wash away sin from the baby, but "protects them against future sins", and Limbo just goes to show that's a load of bollocks. (Then again, a religious person not knowing their own religion and making up theology that they're comfortable with? Shocker.)
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