Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

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Dr Raskolnikov
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:36 pm

Indeed this is the current position. The page I linked to is a current page on the Vatican's website, so I'm afraid there's no "get out of Limbo free" card!

The Church's offical stand on the rite of baptism is still fundamentally Augustinian, and based on the fact that we are all supposedly born with the stain of "original sin", which is effectively carried down genetically in the semen from Adam.

Which raises the point that the entire doctrine of original sin and redemption by sacrifice / deicide is based on the truth of the Adam & Eve story. If they didn't exist, what was the point in god coming down to earth to impregnate a virgin in order to give birth to himself in order to enable himself to be tortured and killed for a sin which he didn't commit and which in fact never happened?
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
aiseiri47
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by aiseiri47 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:18 pm

Which raises the point that the entire doctrine of original sin and redemption by sacrifice / deicide is based on the truth of the Adam & Eve story. If they didn't exist, what was the point in god coming down to earth to impregnate a virgin in order to give birth to himself in order to enable himself to be tortured and killed for a sin which he didn't commit and which in fact never happened?
Ah, but even if they did exist, why go through with the earthly manifestation of Himself to be tortured and killed anyway? I mean, surely God - being all powerful - can just forgive us anyway (if he thinks we deserve it), and let Adam and Eve suffer for their own sins. I always thought the whole plot was overly-complicated and insufficiently developed. :lol:
eccles
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by eccles » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:04 am

I have sepnt the past few months on the Facebook group:
Anti Catholic Church ActivistsWorldwide
https://www.facebook.com/groups/117172751713053/.

One of the Admins. is John Deegan who demonstrates outside the Pro Cathedral in Dublin.

The storys I read from victims of the paedophiles in the "Holy" Roman Catholic Church are horrible to read. And they get nowhere with the CCL as you all know.

Roman Catholic Doctrine: What a joke, what a pack of lies. Even whan I was suffering 12 years of my youth in a Jesuit concentration camp, Xavier College I though must of it was bullshit. The worst was the "Holy Trinity". I could never swallow that shit and was too scared of the strap to question.

I can't understand why there are any Irish people who still believe that crap and still go to Mass.
em hotep

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Robert Tobin Minister, First Church of Atheism (Philidelphia)
"May Your God Go WIth You"
aiseiri47
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by aiseiri47 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:53 pm

I can't understand why there are any Irish people who still believe that crap and still go to Mass.
Quite ironically, I think the reason for this is because religious education is so poor! From what I've gathered about what goes on in RE, particularly from religious parents complaining that kids aren't being churned out to be very religious, it's a bit half-arsed. Sure, they make you say your prayers and teach you Bible stories and discriminate against the non-RC, but I've yet to meet a single Irish person who can tell me what transubstantiation is - so I don't know if they really try to hit home the concept that the Eucharist is physically the body of Christ and not a wafer of bread. And since I've never met an Irish Catholic who knows that the Immaculate Conception is the conception of Mary, and not Jesus, I'm pretty convinced that the general religious education curriculum is that God exists, say your prayers, don't be naughty, go to mass, etc; the more problematic metaphysical stuff they seem to just skim.

So basically, this is the sort of stuff that you take for granted because you don't really think about it because Mammy and Daddy and Teacher believe it, and we're taught to accept information from authority figures. Why should you question that God exists? Because the idea of "God" is not really any more mindbending or difficult to process than the concept of life beginning through a one in a billion chemical process and then evolving to the complexity that it is today. God intervening in the conception of Mary so that his son (who is in fact God, but not the Father, because they're all seperate but also one!) could be carried in a clean vessel not tainted with original sin (the concept that we're all tainted from birth because Eve disobeyed God): this is a bit more to swallow, and more likely to arouse questions, so they try to blur the focus on those bits!

I mean, I take myself as an example. I identified as Catholic for the first 16-17 years of my life. For most of this time I attended secular school and did not go to Mass; when I went to make my Confirmation (which you do around 16-17 in the US - much more sensible time to ask young people to confirm their beliefs, I think), I had to attend CCE classes at the Church. Thus began my true religious education - and a couple of years later, I was an atheist. I know correlation is not causation,but I'm pretty sure there's a real connection there.

And it seems a majority of the atheists in Ireland I come across were put through more vigorous religious education than the bog-standard sort I hear about from actual Catholics. As you said yourself, you couldn't buy the Holy Trinity. But how many schools teach kids about what that actually means, and how many just teach the story of St Patrick using the shamrock to explain it and don't really get into the problematic issue of how God can be three seperate entities, but also one?
eccles
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by eccles » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:40 am

[quote]So basically, this is the sort of stuff that you take for granted because you don't really think about it because Mammy and Daddy and Teacher believe it, and we're taught to accept information from authority figures. Why should you question that God exists?[quote]

Excellent reply aiseiri47.
It all boils doen to this: All Roman Catholics are taught are the bare minumum: A few prayers, when to kneel, stand and sit at Mass. That's it.
They are told to Believe, never Question, and OBEY---- OR ELSE!
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Robert Tobin Minister, First Church of Atheism (Philidelphia)
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Royal
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Royal » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:02 am

Hank Stamper wrote:What's going on here?:
Image

Villainous sneer, flash of leg..."Me? The 13th Duke of Wybourne? Here? In a sixth form girl's dormitory? At three o'clock in the morning? With my reputation? What were they thinking of?"

Those books...wow! Wacko is right.
Bishop Sheen ministered to a Hollywood Star whom he admired greatly which caused him to emulate her posing and swaying especially sweeping his robe as a gesture of respect. What specifically do you consider wacko re: "those books"?
Dr Raskolnikov
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Re: Catholic doctrine - we forget how wacko it can get

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:22 am

Royal wrote: Bishop Sheen ministered to a Hollywood Star whom he admired greatly which caused him to emulate her posing and swaying especially sweeping his robe as a gesture of respect. What specifically do you consider wacko re: "those books"?
Hmm, where do I start? Take a look at my OP. One of the books is called:

"Get out of the way while God sanctifies your child through danger and suffering."

Does this sound reasonable to you?
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
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