Atheist Ireland Forum

The motto or mission statement of Atheist Ireland is "Building a rational, ethical and secular society free from superstition and supernaturalism."
Most of our focus is on rationalism and secularism, and while we would probably all agree that the changes we push for would make society more ethical, there is obviously a lot more to an ethical society than simply teaching science and not favouring religion.
So, I have some questions: Who here is involved in other ethical movements, and what are they? And do you think Atheist Ireland should have particular viewpoints on ethical issues not directly related to atheism (e.g. gay rights, abortion rights, animal rights, fair trade) or should we remain strictly neutral on these issues?

imho I think with limited resources and time we have enough of a struggle fighting for the separation of church and state as it is. Even within that concept there are many facets; law, education, government; broadcasting; state authorities etc.
As it is we don't have enough time to tackle half of these issues properly.

Apart from that, and I think this is the more salient point, at least with the separation of church and state, it's something we can likely all agree on.

The other issues you mention bring to mind Dawkins' phrase 'herding cats'.

You're going to find atheists who don't particularly care about gay rights, or not as much as they do the separation of church and state.

You'll find pro-life atheists who would disagree with a pro-choice lobby from AI

You’ll find rural atheists who are dead against the recent stag hunting ban thinking it a ridiculous waste of time

You’ll find atheist believers in free trade looking down their nose at the idea of fair trade

A good example of this was the reaction on Facebook to the highlighting of the fact that some members had decided to campaign for Ivana Bacik & Ruairi Quinn in the election with details of where it was happening. It was far from an official endorsement and yet people went mental saying AI shouldn’t be endorsing political parties and should stay neutral. Even though both Bacik (as a member of AI) and Quinn had previously shown they were of like minds to us on the issues of church and state and it was clear that it wasn’t an official endorsement.

That said, it’s certainly worth kicking about. If we can find a stance to take on an ethical issue not directly related atheism that most people agree on, why not? But I don’t think that will be as easy as say getting the catholic church out of Irish primary schools.

Of course, I’m not saying that any of the above statements are what I think on the various issues listed.

Have to agree

Michael has said in the past that AI's authority and ethics stems from adhering to UN human rights; when arguing for secularism in education. We can't have double standards, if the UN has a position on say homosexuality it's implied to myself at least that AI has position as well.

Well AI's current policy is something to the effect of: "Ethical issues should be discussed with dignity, compassion and respect for human life"

1. It is a good position, but sounds like a bit of a kop-out at the same time - may be worth being more specific
2. We should be promoting discussion on these issues like we have done in the past when Exit International had so many venues cancelled on them in Dublin, A member helped them out finding Seomra Sproi

We should definitely promote discussion on a controversial subject like abortion and not have the organisers (i.e. a pro-choice or a LGBT rights group) be bullied by a counter-lobby

I have sat in consultations, conferences and discussions regarding human rights and listened to members of various organisations speak on abortion and LGBT issues. Most of the input from these people is very negative and sometimes it is hateful. A lot of these issues will come up under equality before the law and the right to be free from discrimination. These issues come under various UN and Council of Europe Conventions and of course we are invited because of our policies on oaths and education etc.

As AI does not have a policy on these issues I find that I cannot speak out and on more than one occasion sat and listened to people undermining the basic human rights of my fellow citizens and non citizens for that matter.

I think that there would be consensus on a lot of issues before things like politics, economics etc got in the way.