English Faith State Schools Shun Kids

General discussions
Post Reply
Dev
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Dublin

English Faith State Schools Shun Kids

Post by Dev » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:15 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/201 ... est-pupils
The Roman Catholic church, which has repeatedly insisted its schools are inclusive, comes out particularly badly in the examination of data published by the Department for Education (DfE) last month and in December. Three-quarters of Catholic primary and secondary schools have a more affluent mix of pupils than their local area.
Further in the article:
In contrast, non-religious schools tend to reflect their neighbourhoods. Half (51%) of non-religious primaries and 45% of non-religious secondaries have a smaller proportion of pupils eligible for free school meals than is representative for their local authority.
I think like the RDF Mori poll on people who ticked "Christian" a few weeks ago, this is not surprising but now we have evidence. Secular schools are both more inclusive and pluralist.

Interfacing with the data can be achieved here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... hool-meals
ptferg
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:42 pm
Location: Galway
Contact:

Re: English Faith State Schools Shun Kids

Post by ptferg » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:49 pm

My brother is living in England and to enroll his son into the local catholic school, he not only had to provide evidence of his sons baptismal but he had to show his face at mass on a regular basis or they would not allow him admission. I don't see how they can claim they are 'inclusive' when they enact such practices.
http://www.humanisticus.com/ My musings about religion, Atheism, secularism, Humanism etc.
Puck
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:20 pm

Re: English Faith State Schools Shun Kids

Post by Puck » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:48 pm

But isn't what a faith school all about? Providing a school with a religious ethos for their believers and not pandering to the common person/non-believer.

The problem (almost uniquely) in Ireland is that there is no extensive national secular school network, and from my understand the UK has a secular school network.
Dev
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
Posts: 914
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: English Faith State Schools Shun Kids

Post by Dev » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:16 pm

Puck wrote:But isn't [this] what a faith school all about? Providing a school with a religious ethos for their believers and not pandering to the common person/non-believer.
This is news because the Catholic Church insists its schools are inclusive of all children in the parish and local communities. The Catholic Church likes to pride itself as champion of the poor; this report shows that the Church prefers richer kids than poorer kids in their schools. The Catholic Church isn't the only institution that comes out looking bad but it is the one most relevant to Ireland.

If the Church openly said that it preferred middle class kids over working class kids this report wouldn't be surprising at all.

I'm not getting all high and mighty either. This report is one piece of evidence. What it really means is that more investigating should be done (ideally from other organizations) but early results don't look good for the CCL.
Nimeniton
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:59 am

Re: English Faith State Schools Shun Kids

Post by Nimeniton » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:00 am

Dev wrote:
If the Church openly said that it preferred middle class kids over working class kids this report wouldn't be surprising at all.

.
It could also be the other way around or both. Middle class parents could be very keen to get their children into English Roman Catholic schools. My experience is out of date going back to 1982/1983 but for what it is worth middle class parents then wanted the 'discipline' that Catholic schools provided. There would be a surge of attendance at church from the lapsed Catholics just before putting forward their kids' names for entrance.

I, however, was not impressed with the psychological effects that the school's discipline was having on my 4 year old son. I use to collect him during work lunch and deliver him to my my wife's work place. Normally he was very chatty but one day he was completely silent. I asked him why and he confessed that he had done something very evil. So, evil that he begged that I would not tell his mother. Very surprised I asked him what this terrible deed was. He said that he had climbed up on top of a double decker bus. This he was obviously not capable of and finally he broke down and admitted that the teacher had caught him showing an evil interest in his little todger during toilet break. He was taken out of that school pretty sharpish. Sick perverted teacher
HarryO'Criosna
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: English Faith State Schools Shun Kids

Post by HarryO'Criosna » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:52 pm

The driver in the UK is that the school you go to is driven by your postcode...you can't just choose to go to any one you like as you can here, unless you go for a denominational one. So e.g. a buddy of mine lives in an area of London which has some pretty rough spots, if they stick to the state i.e. non-denominational schools his kids will end up in what is widely regarded as the worst secondary school in London for gangs, bullying etc. So he and his missus, total non-believers, want their kids to go the nearest catholic school, which is meant to be excellent (apart from the whole catholic bit obviously).
To do this they have to turn up at mass...there are sign-in sheets some weeks but not all and you need to have signed in a certain number of times to be eligible. They are also expected to be 'active' in the church community, they turned up at a fete or two and this seemed to fit the bill. The local parish priest vets the school list. Their eldest has now gotten in, so they can pull the sibling rule for the rest.
Its a pain in the hole but I completely see the logic from both sides. The parents want their kids to go to a decent school, and will rely on their own parenting to prevent any indoctrination. The masses etc. are just a means to an end. And yes of course someone can say they should send their kids to the local comp and try and change it for the better, but they are also obliged to live in the real world where looking after your own kids is your priority.

The school/church has to exercise some rules over who gets in as they are over-subscribed, and it seems natural enough they would use the catholicity (?word) of teh applicants. After all showing up at mass a few times shouldn't be an issue if you're actually a catholic, surely. The state is providing education as you can always go to the local comp where there's plenty of places.
Post Reply