Sci-Fi Thread

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Ygern
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Re: Sci-Fi Thread

Post by Ygern » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:44 am

Honestly I don't know how to interpret any cultural signals that would translate into a market for vampire films. There is a reason I can identify why there's a plethora of vampire series & remakes on tv (and at the cinema). But its a crassly commercial reason one. All productions these days are hugely expensive, have massive competition and only a short window of opportunity to become a success. To boost the odds in favour of your show you can either reproduce a formula you know is in fashion or you can remake a hit show / film that will have an instantly recognisable name.

The current vampire fetish is largely due to the massive success of Buffy, but probably helped along by Anne Rice's homoerotic Lestat series, both of them were a 90s phenomenon that spilled over into the new millennium. You should take a look at this review of Star Trek 2009 - the reviewer really knows his stuff when it comes to media and explains the whole remake / reboot / sequel industry much better than I can. Also, he's freaking hilarious. http://www.redlettermedia.com/star_trek_09.html

Vampires, let's be honest, are a fairly silly concept, but it feeds off a very primal fear that humans all share: fear of the dark, fear of slaughter, fear of being prey or food. All these were very real problems for our ancestors; so the idea resonates with us. Hollywood has sexed it up a fair bit. If you compare the European vampire legends that predate Bram Stoker's Dracula, vampires were not romantic figures. They were parasites or predators, they carried diseases, they were hated. Hollywood realised that while the fear element was good, fear + sex was better.

As a concept vampires & horror movies go in and out of fashion all the time. They are almost never taken seriously as "real" cinema - which is why Joss Whedon got the balance right when he decided to be satirical of the genre with Buffy. At the moment the current wave of popularity is as high as its going to go. The next phase is when everyone begins to recognise the silliness. Then it will go right out of fashion again, especially as the current popular shows have little sense of humour or self-deprecation to save them.
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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GazUtd
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Re: Caprica Season 1.5

Post by GazUtd » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:54 am

Ygern wrote:In my opinion this is why Voyager managed to suck so much.

It didn't suck that bad. I mean it wasn't Enterprise bad.

But that leads me to my theory about Caprica and Enterprise and those other 3 things that shall never be mentioned. Prequels don't work! Personally sci-fi is all about future cool gadgets and if you go back in time to do a prequel then the gadgets are never as cool so therefore the series sucks. Q. E. D. or something.

Anyway seeing as this is now the 'sci-fi' thread and I don't have to pretend I liked Firefly (yes, yes, heretic etc) can we talk about Blakes 7!! :lol:
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Ygern
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Re: Caprica Season 1.5

Post by Ygern » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:09 am

GazUtd wrote:
It didn't suck that bad.
It did too.

I liked the actors a lot and I am enough of a shameless Trekkie to have watched every episode.
But stories like Sacred Ground and Threshold were just appalling. The first was the most blatant anti-science sermon I have ever seen - on a show that is meant to be all about science and reason. The second was written by someone who seems to have gotten their understanding of evolution from what's written on the walls of the public toilets in their local pub.
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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Re: Sci-Fi Thread

Post by munsterdevil » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:23 am

Firstly, I agree with Ygern, Voyager sucked the big one! My favourite Star Trek show has to be Deep Space Nine, even though they did reportedly rob the idea off Babylon 5 :shock:

I take on board everything you say about the vampire genre, about Anne Rice's Lestat and Buffy being the main cause of the influx of the vampire genre, our deepest darkest fears etc. But I think there is probably another underlying factor as to why they are being made, what it is, I don't know and can only speculate (not here as it's not a conspiracy thread). For instance, when people were watching the western and UFO genre movies they had no idea of the communism metaphors. It's easier to analyse these things looking back on them, so maybe in a few decades some smart Alec expert might know just why there was an influx of the vampire genre in the early 21st century! I must take a look at that link as well.

I would have to disagree with you on the vampire genre being silly though, I enjoy it, well most of it, I hated Buffy, but liked Blade, Stephen King's Salem's Lot, John Carpenter's Vampires, Angel (was darker than Buffy) and now True Blood. I know the vampire genre is not Sci-Fi, rather supernatural, but heck, it's my vice! I always loved horror movies and shows, when I was a believer they used really frighten the bejesus out of me (I'm still human), and still do, but not to the same extent, it takes a serious horror movie now to creep me out. I was a believer when I first watched the Exorcist and I was totally freaked out over it. Year later when I was more logical about things (i.e. atheist) I watched it again and actually laughed at how ridiculous the whole concept was!

On another note, is there anyone watching Stargate Universe, it's very good I think.

Another Sci-Fi show I must get around to watching is Farscape, it's supposed to be excellent...
Last edited by munsterdevil on Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. Arthur C. Clarke
GazUtd
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Re: Caprica Season 1.5

Post by GazUtd » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:28 am

Ygern wrote:
It did too.

I liked the actors a lot and I am enough of a shameless Trekkie to have watched every episode.
But stories like Sacred Ground and Threshold were just appalling. The first was the most blatant anti-science sermon I have ever seen - on a show that is meant to be all about science and reason. The second was written by someone who seems to have gotten their understanding of evolution from what's written on the walls of the public toilets in their local pub.
But it still didn't suck Enterprise bad, did it?

Anyway as much of a Trekkie that I am unfortunately I never remember episodes by their name, you'll have to describe them in future as "The one where the doctor was inside 7's body (oo-er missus)" or such. Only in future though as I looked those 2 you mentioned up...

Sacred Ground - It basically revolves around Kes and anything with Kes involved sucks.
Threshold - This for me is a bit like a combination of two TNG episodes Genesis and Unnatural Selection (I looked up the names especially for you) and you aren't going to rag on TNG now, are you? :shock:

Still at the end of the day it's just a TV show and it's done way more good sciency things than bad. Except for the clamshell phone, those suck!
Humans are an intelligent species. We just aren't smart enough to realise how stupid we are.

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Re: Sci-Fi Thread

Post by Tulip1 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:13 am

thanks, munsterdevil for trying to explain.

I still have no idea what it is like!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

So you all think it is worth watching? I might download an episode to see what it is. It sounds good.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Ygern
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Re: Sci-Fi Thread

Post by Ygern » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:31 pm

Sacred Ground - It basically revolves around Kes and anything with Kes involved sucks.
No, she is unconscious for the entire episode bar the first 2 minutes. The plot of the episode is to teach Janeway a lesson: science is just a religion too. You need to have faith in higher powers that you can't ever explain with your stupid religious scientism. And the worst bit is that by the end of the episode the script has Janeway believing this and using the word "scientific" as a veiled insult.

It would be dire enough to see this on an episode of Lost, but you would kind of expect no better.
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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chemicals
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Re: Sci-Fi Thread

Post by chemicals » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:10 pm

Speaking of religiously themed Star trek episodes surely the one "Bread and Circuses" must take the prize !
Where Kirk et al are forced to fight in gladiatorial games on a planet resembling the Roman Empire and the sixties !

which contain these beauties !!
"Don't you understand? It's not the sun up in the sky. It's the Son of God."
"Caesar ... and Christ; they had them both. And the Word is spreading only now."
and in relation of the rise of Christianity on this planet they say with a look of awe and beatification ...
"Wouldn't that be something to watch. To see it happen - all over again."
Puuuukeee !!
والقس هو مجنون
Ygern
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Re: Sci-Fi Thread

Post by Ygern » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:52 pm

TOS definitely had a bit of an identity crisis from time to time. Roddenberry frequently put in overtly atheist plots or dialogue only to have to bow to studio pressures in other episodes. So characters sometimes contradicted themselves on the subject of beliefs.

Religion in Trek
Star Trek made me an atheist
From Iconoclasm to Tolerance
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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Re: Caprica Season 1.5

Post by aZerogodist » Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:50 pm

munsterdevil wrote:Yep, proud Browncoat as well, excellent series and a very good film IMHO to finish it up, had a soft spot too for the Ship's mechanic Kaylee!

The only gripe I had with it though was since it was on the FOX channel, the religious theme was, though subtle, kind of pushed. For instance we had the presence of the Christian Shepard (Pastor) Book who often guided the captain, and the idea of aliens was never entertained, because we all know that God only created life on Earth :?
But you don't know the full story about Shepard Book, turns out the actor is a Buddhist, but from the show we knew there was more to him:
In the 14th episode of Firefly, "Objects in Space," Simon berates the bounty hunter Jubal Early for assaulting Book, a Shepherd. Early replies, "That ain't a Shepherd."[6] In the DVD commentary Firefly, Whedon states this is due to Early's intuition and ability to quickly size people up. He also comments that Early's methods for dealing with each crew member are custom-tailored to their personalities. Early disposes of Mal in a straight-forward manner; Joss then notes that Early's method for taking out Book is equally straight-forward, alluding to a similarity between the two otherwise different characters
Here's the story:
His background is explored further in the comic book Serenity: The Shepherd's Tale. Book was born Henry Evans, a boy who was raised by an abusive father. He ran away from home and began life as a petty criminal before being recruited by the Independence movement and moving out to the Border Worlds. Long before the Alliance begins the Unification War, forward-thinking Browncoats assign Evans to be a long-term mole. He sheds his old identity by killing a random passerby and stealing his identification card, becoming Derrial Book. His Browncoat superiors keep tabs on him by surgically removing one of his eyes and replacing it with an artificial camera. He joins the Alliance military and quickly moves up in rank. Becoming an officer, Book intentionally leads a risky operation that results in a humiliating defeat for the Alliance. He is stripped of his rank and discharged from the Alliance military. He takes refuge at an abbey where he becomes a shepherd before leaving on the Serenity to become a missionary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrial_Book
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