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Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:22 am
by Beebub
Off topic, I know, but I've been having an interesting discussion elsewhere about this and am curious as to people's attitude to this divisive case.

Short background: Nally was tried and convicted of the manslaughter of Ward, a traveller with string of convictions and several outstanding bench warrants. Nally claims Ward was in his house when he came home. He went ot the shed to get his shotgun, shot Ward in the hip and hand and beat him with the gun; all on his property.

Ward fled the scene. Nally went back to his shed, reloaded, followed Ward onto the public road and shot him in the back, killing him, citing fear for his life.

There was no evidence of a break in and no forensic evidence to place Ward in Nally's house.

The judge in the first case instructed the jury that they must find Nally guilty of either murder or manslaughter and would not allow them to find him not guilty on the grounds of self defense saying that given the evidence of the case, to do so would be perverse.

The court of criminal appeal quashed the verdict, ordered a retrail at which Nally was aquitted by a jury and set free.

I seem to be in the minority who thinks that you can't shoot a wounded man dead, on a public road, whose in retreat and call it self defense. Now clearly, I'm in disagreement with the jury who sat through the entirety of the evidence and set him free and I admit I don't know the full facts of the case.

I'm just surprised I seem to be in such a small minority of people who think that it's not acceptable to do this kind of thing. I was curious as to how others who frequent this site felt on the matter?

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:29 am
by chemicals
Fuck him ! :evil:
he had a string of convictions and had his son with him as back up -what do you think he was doing there collecting for the salvation army ??

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:41 am
by funkyderek
Seems like murder to me. Following someone on to a road and shooting them in the back is not self-defense.

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:59 am
by chemicals
your assuming he was acting rationally - in actual fact he was terrified though -reasonably- and that yer man was gonna come back with his buddies and do him in ! we should not just focous on the shooting without looking at the background .

I wonder if he was not a member of the traveller community would the do gooder brigage be so all high and mighty about this case ?

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:09 pm
by Beebub
chemicals wrote:your assuming he was acting rationally - in actual fact he was terrified though -reasonably- and that yer man was gonna come back with his buddies and do him in ! we should not just focous on the shooting without looking at the background .

I wonder if he was not a member of the traveller community would the do gooder brigage be so all high and mighty about this case ?
But I'm not taking account of the fact that Ward was a traveller. I'm simply looking at the facts of the case.

I've no doubt that Nally was scared and I don't know what I would have done in his situation. That however doesn't mean what he did was right. The question I would raise about the second shooting, assuming that you feel his actions were justified, is where would you draw the line? What if it had taken him a bit longer to re-load and he followed Ward home and shot several people out of fear of reprisal?

I have heard some people laying the blame entirely at Ward's feet, saying that if he hadn't been there, this wouldn't have happened. I'm suggesting that if Nally had not followed him out onto the public road to finish him off that he very likely would not have been tried. He shot Ward in the hip and hand and beat him up with the gun on his property. I'm not sure the Gardai would have done much about this.

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:12 pm
by funkyderek
Looking more at the case, a verdict of manslaughter seems fairer. I understand that Nally was terrified and mentally unbalanced due to past crimes - and the imagined threat of crimes - but there's nothing to indicate that Ward had any role in this.

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:16 pm
by Feardorcha
I'm with the jury on this one.

We must also recognise that we live in a country where the rule of law is not enforced equally, and often not at all.
Also, a person who accuses and testifies against a member of a criminal gang or a band of travelling brigands is putting himself/herself and family at serious risk. The gardai will often advise - in confidence of course - a complainant to think carefully before giving evidence against those outside the law.

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:25 pm
by chemicals
Beebub wrote: But I'm not taking account of the fact that Ward was a traveller. I'm simply looking at the facts of the case.
fair enough but you can be sure a lot of people focus on it though.
would raise about the second shooting, assuming that you feel his actions were justified, is where would you draw the line? What if it had taken him a bit longer to re-load and he followed Ward home and shot several people out of fear of reprisal?
Ward lived miles away so i doubt that scene could ever happen - however if he did -it would be more proof that he was not in his right mind surely ? it not a case of drawing the line -the question is-was the man acting rationally or not at the time - I'm fairly sure he was terrified out of his wits and his behavior in the preceding days -hiding in the shed with the shot gun etc are not the acts of a fully rational man .
I have heard some people laying the blame entirely at Ward's feet, saying that if he hadn't been there, this wouldn't have happened. I'm suggesting that if Nally had not followed him out onto the public road to finish him off that he very likely would not have been tried. He shot Ward in the hip and hand and beat him up with the gun on his property. I'm not sure the Gardai would have done much about this.
correct he had every right to defend his property from two know dangerous criminals
John Ward had a long criminal record dating back over 30 years and revealed that four bench warrants for John Ward’s arrest were outstanding at the time of his death]
and this beauty
Tom Ward, the chief witness for the prosecution was himself serving an eleven-month sentence at the time of the trial, for possessing a knife and for theft

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:32 pm
by funkyderek
chemicals wrote:Ward lived miles away so i doubt that scene could ever happen - however if he did -it would be more proof that he was not in his right mind surely ? it not a case of drawing the line -the question is-was the man acting rationally or not at the time - I'm fairly sure he was terrified out of his wits and his behavior in the preceding days -hiding in the shed with the shot gun etc are not the acts of a fully rational man .
Are you saying that people who are mentally unstable, own shotguns and use them to kill people should be let go free?

Re: Padraig Nally

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:43 pm
by chemicals
funkyderek wrote:
Are you saying that people who are mentally unstable, own shotguns and use them to kill people should be let go free?
You know full well i'm not saying that - i was replying to something raised by beebub :roll: