Humanists to get legal status for weddings

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Beebub
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Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 9:38 am

I think this is great and long overdue...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fro ... 08779.html

23% of marriages in 2006 were non-religious. This must be up again by now. This is all the more significant because at present you can't have a civil ceremony on a Saturday as state registrars only work Monday to Friday. How many more would there have been had people been allowed to have a civil ceremony on a Saturday?

I think credit is due to Ivana Bacik over this. She got some stick over the silence in the Seanad malarky. I for one will be e-mailing her to congratulate her on her efforts on this.

Of course it hasn't passed yet and must make it through the Dail, however I doubt Joan Burton would introduce legislation she thought she didn't have the votes for.
Puck
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Puck » Tue May 01, 2012 9:47 am

I'm still don't know why only organisations can obtain the privilege to solemnise marriages.
Beebub
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 9:48 am

Civil marriages in 2008 was 24%. Can't find anything more up to date than that.
Beebub
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 9:53 am

Puck wrote:I'm still don't know why only organisations can obtain the privilege to solemnise marriages.
Well it's pretty big step in the right direction. As it stands only a member of a religious body may celebrate marriages which is defined as:
an organised group of people, members of which meet regularly for common religious worship.
Once this is passed, it will no longer only be religious bodies who can marry people. I have to say I'm happy with this change and I suspect civil ceremonies will increase given that they will now be able to happen on a Saturday. I can imagine some people would be put off by separating the legal ceremony with the party. Now it can all be done on the same day on a Saturday if people wish.
Feardorcha
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Feardorcha » Tue May 01, 2012 10:08 am

I was married by a civil servant in Limerick and, as far as I know, the only organisation to which he belonged was his trade union.
Beebub
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 10:19 am

Feardorcha wrote:I was married by a civil servant in Limerick and, as far as I know, the only organisation to which he belonged was his trade union.
Yes, sorry, I left out the first bit of the sentence,
The 2004 Act stipulates that, apart from Health Service Executive registrars, only a member of a “religious body” may celebrate legal marriages.
Meaning your civil servant must be a registrar from the HSE. Were you married on a Saturday?
Beebub
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 10:24 am

I've e-mailed Ivana to thank her for her work on this. Her e-mail address for those interested is

ivana.bacik@oireachtas.ie

It's easier to have a go when we don't like things. I e-mailed her about my dislike of the silence in the Seanad and felt it only right to e-mail my approval to her now on this issue.
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Feardorcha » Tue May 01, 2012 11:25 am

Were you married on a Saturday?
I can't remember; I'd have to ask the other contracting party.

On the larger issue, surely we should leave it to the state to register marriages. There is no demand for organisations to become registrars of deaths or births (unless I'm greatly mistaken).
chemicals
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by chemicals » Tue May 01, 2012 11:48 am

Feardorcha wrote: I'd have to ask the other contracting party.
brilliant :D
-gonna steal that one :lol:
والقس هو مجنون
Beebub
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 2:03 pm

Feardorcha wrote: On the larger issue, surely we should leave it to the state to register marriages. There is no demand for organisations to become registrars of deaths or births (unless I'm greatly mistaken).
We already have that as far as I understand it. For civil ceremonies we have HSE registrars (who don't work on a Saturday) and religious bodies. The religious body (i.e. the priest) is serving two functions. He's marrying people in the church in a religious ceremony and he is separately registering the marriage on behalf of the state as a registrar.

In any religious weddings I have been at there have been two separate things happening. The exchange of vows is the religious element and separately the register is signed by the couple and their witnesses in front of the priest. I could be wrong, but if the second part is not done, the couple may be married in the eyes of the religious organisation but not in the eyes of the state. For example, in the case of a Catholic marriage where one of the couple has had their first amrriage annulled, the state doesn't recognise the marriage and so no registration would take place.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone wanting to have a religious ceremony and be able to do the legal/ state bit at the same time. Nor do I have a problem with priests being allowed to carry out this function on behalf of the state. It has no effect on my life, nor does it on anyone who doesn't want a religious ceremony.

This Bill allows people to have a non-religious/ humanist ceremony and not do the legal bit sepearately to have it recognised by the state. It also now allows people to get married on a Saturday and do it all together as religious ceremonies can.
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