Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Commentary on and links to religion or atheism in the media
Beebub
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 2:11 pm

I e-mailed Ivana Bacik and she replied attaching the notes on the Bill. I tried to attach it but I'm not allowed.

Amazingly in it she says the following:
The CSO has stated that in 2012, for the first time the number of non-religious wedding ceremonies may exceed the number of religious ceremonies.
This is way up from 24% in 2008 and is all the more astonishing given that you can't have a civil ceremony on a Saturday. The introduction of this Bill will almost certainly increase these figures again.
paolovf
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by paolovf » Tue May 01, 2012 2:13 pm

Beebub wrote:I wouldn't begrudge anyone wanting to have a religious ceremony and be able to do the legal/ state bit at the same time. Nor do I have a problem with priests being allowed to carry out this function on behalf of the state. It has no effect on my life, nor does it on anyone who doesn't want a religious ceremony.

This Bill allows people to have a non-religious/ humanist ceremony and not do the legal bit sepearately to have it recognised by the state. It also now allows people to get married on a Saturday and do it all together as religious ceremonies can.
I second that. And that's what religious people need to recognise, it's about giving everyone the same opportunity rather than an attack on religion or tradition.
Beebub
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 2:44 pm

Feardorcha wrote: On the larger issue, surely we should leave it to the state to register marriages. There is no demand for organisations to become registrars of deaths or births (unless I'm greatly mistaken).
Also, aren't the registration of deaths and births done by the state anyway? It's not as if the registration of a death is done in the church after the funeral or the registration of a birth done in a church after a christening, so why would there be a need for an organisation to become registrar of deaths and births?

To call for priests to no longer be allowed to register a marriage and insist that they're all registered by a HSE registrar is excessive in my opinion. But maybe that's not what you're calling for?
Feardorcha
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Feardorcha » Tue May 01, 2012 3:51 pm

I'm wasn't calling for anything. I was just musing on why a non-religious organisation should get involved in the registration of marriages. Is there an element that because religions do it, we should do it too? Should AI get in on the act now as well as the HAI?
By the way, the state ceremony is very nice and moving (well I cried a little). There's some stuff about the republic or the state that was very French. I should have paid more attention.
Beebub
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Beebub » Tue May 01, 2012 11:55 pm

Feardorcha wrote:I'm wasn't calling for anything. I was just musing on why a non-religious organisation should get involved in the registration of marriages. Is there an element that because religions do it, we should do it too? Should AI get in on the act now as well as the HAI?
By the way, the state ceremony is very nice and moving (well I cried a little). There's some stuff about the republic or the state that was very French. I should have paid more attention.
I don't think we should get in on the act because for the most part we're a lobby group. I can't speak for HAI as I'm not a member, but they seem to do more than lobbying and have several ceremonies for people looking for a non-religious version of traditional ceremonies such as naming ceremonies, funerals and weddings. Given that they're already providing wedding ceremonies, given that civil ceremonies currently can't be done on a Saturday, I think it's a good idea that they apply to be official registrars. I suspect it will result in an increase in the numbers choosing a Non-religious ceremony. The more that do this, the better it is for us as more and more people will become aware that there are more than just a handful non-catholic people in Ireland.
Last edited by mkaobrih on Wed May 02, 2012 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed double post
bix
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by bix » Wed May 02, 2012 6:34 pm

There's a set of conditions mentioned in the article:
A group of this nature must be a “philosophical and nonconfessional body”, have been performing marriage ceremonies for at least five years, and at least 20 couples must have participated in the ceremony.
Does anyone know if there are any bodies other than HAI that qualify? (and indeed, what is meant by "philosophical and nonconfessional"?)
Dev
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Dev » Thu May 03, 2012 4:49 pm

I would like to know more about this term "nonconfessional".

I interpret it to mean that the Catholic Church is a confessional body because it caters for peoples need to unburden their sins by talking. HAI offers no such service. Ceremonies and services such as weddings and funerals can be secular - surely confessions can be secular in nature as well?

What happens if an organization like HAI starts up to offer secular services that religious bodies would normally provide including peoples need to confess and talk about their problems could they be denied the same status as HAI on the grounds they are a confessional body?
Feardorcha
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Re: Humanists to get legal status for weddings

Post by Feardorcha » Thu May 03, 2012 7:32 pm

As far as I understand it, a confessional body is one where the members share a belief. It is usually used to mean a religion or sect. That's where we get 'confessional states' meaning a country where everyone is supposed to share a religion such as Israel, the state of the Jewish people or the Islamic Republic of Iran. The Republic of Ireland was and probably still is a confessional state due to the special role of the Catholic Church.
As to the meaning of nonconfessional in this instance - I haven't a clue except they mean 'not a religion'.
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