Irish Atheists for a Modern Constitution

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
lostexpectation
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Post by lostexpectation » Sun May 18, 2008 2:45 pm

well not much that much more detail, but meeting with the HSE is interesting, i can't help but think there constantly being too polite in their descriptions of the meetings, why not say your getting the brush off if that's the case, why give an indication that the HSE gives a hoot about what the humanist think about our health service considering the state its in?


im sure the humanist have met theses people and done these rounds of meetings before, the OP doesn't just want to talk about it he wants to get it done. some of these humanist people have been involved in referendum and other campaigns before im sure they have plenty of knowledge of how things work.

ah that article is here
http://www.humanism.ie/hi/himayjun08articles.html#1
test
abc
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 1:55 pm

Post by abc » Tue May 20, 2008 4:46 pm

Some people seem to think that because we have an unsaid 'pseudo-secular' state, that that is good enough on its own, and that no hard amendments are needed to solidify our country as a proper secular democracy.

I disagree with those people.

It would be best to properly migrate our laws and constitution to a truly secular standing. Without reference to god(s), or any notion of privilege for religion (i.e. things like blasphemy).
bipedalhumanoid
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Wed May 21, 2008 6:47 am

dj357 wrote:
lostexpectation wrote:
CelticAtheist wrote:I mean, get involved.

Saying "Oh, wouldn't it be great if they added real church-state separation" while sitting on your arse is all well and good, but getting involved deeply is the only way you can change anything.
you don't need to get involved in politics, you could take them to court as a citizen, i say becoming a lawyer is your first step.
I understand where you both are coming from, but I aready know what I want to do with my life and becoming a lawyer or getting into politics are not on the agenda, that's why I'm reaching out to others on this subject who may actually be in a position to help bring this to fruition.

And, to be frank, sitting on my arse is the last thing I'm doing. I've set up a bebo page on the topic, I've contacted people on different forums, I'm planning on a myspace page, I have researched the topic in depth and I'm engaging in an active dialogue with people who share my views. Since I'm in germany until september, do you truly consider this 'sitting on my arse'?
I don't think you're sitting on your arse and I don't think it was a fair accusation. We all should do what we can. One step you could make, if you haven't already, is join the humanist association. They are campaigning for the same thing and the stronger their membership the stronger their voice. Membership is only about 20Euro per annum.

Then continue what you're doing. Do what you can to keep the issue alive. Maybe take the opportunity any chance you get to write letters to the editors of newspapers. They don't have to be specifically about the constitution. Any letters written from the perspective of a secularist will remind people that we still exist.

Ignore the nay sayers. They seem to come out of the woodwork anytime someone comes up with a suggestion and they generally have NOTHING productive to add.
dj357
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 12:05 pm
Location: Limerick

Post by dj357 » Wed May 21, 2008 10:14 am

bipedalhumanoid wrote:
dj357 wrote:
lostexpectation wrote: you don't need to get involved in politics, you could take them to court as a citizen, i say becoming a lawyer is your first step.
I understand where you both are coming from, but I aready know what I want to do with my life and becoming a lawyer or getting into politics are not on the agenda, that's why I'm reaching out to others on this subject who may actually be in a position to help bring this to fruition.

And, to be frank, sitting on my arse is the last thing I'm doing. I've set up a bebo page on the topic, I've contacted people on different forums, I'm planning on a myspace page, I have researched the topic in depth and I'm engaging in an active dialogue with people who share my views. Since I'm in germany until september, do you truly consider this 'sitting on my arse'?
I don't think you're sitting on your arse and I don't think it was a fair accusation. We all should do what we can. One step you could make, if you haven't already, is join the humanist association. They are campaigning for the same thing and the stronger their membership the stronger their voice. Membership is only about 20Euro per annum.

Then continue what you're doing. Do what you can to keep the issue alive. Maybe take the opportunity any chance you get to write letters to the editors of newspapers. They don't have to be specifically about the constitution. Any letters written from the perspective of a secularist will remind people that we still exist.

Ignore the nay sayers. They seem to come out of the woodwork anytime someone comes up with a suggestion and they generally have NOTHING productive to add.
Thanks for the support and the great suggestions!
abc wrote:Some people seem to think that because we have an unsaid 'pseudo-secular' state, that that is good enough on its own, and that no hard amendments are needed to solidify our country as a proper secular democracy.

I disagree with those people.

It would be best to properly migrate our laws and constitution to a truly secular standing. Without reference to god(s), or any notion of privilege for religion (i.e. things like blasphemy).
Nice to see someone who knows EXACTLY where I'm coming from, and said it in a better way than I felt I could. A 'Pseudo-Secular' society is exactly what we have at the moment, but that could so easily change.

Let's make it change to OUR advantage!
lostexpectation wrote:the OP doesn't just want to talk about it he wants to get it done.
Thank you for re-iterating that rather clearly for me!!
abc
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 1:55 pm

Post by abc » Wed May 21, 2008 4:36 pm

dj357 wrote:A 'Pseudo-Secular' society is exactly what we have at the moment, but that could so easily change.

Let's make it change to OUR advantage!
Well, change it to not-our-disadvantage, more like! :)

After all, secularism is not about the 'stomping out' of private religious belief, instead it's about the separation of religion and state.
Alexis
Posts: 265
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 12:45 am

Re: Irish Atheists for a Modern Constitution

Post by Alexis » Thu May 22, 2008 12:26 am

dj357 wrote:My name is Darragh J, I am 21, a firm Atheist (of the strong persuasion), and I come from Ireland.

Since I realised the error of my religious ways in 2003, and devoted my time and mental faculties to freethought and intelligent discourse, I seem to have been mainly ineffective in attempting to get others ........
Darragh, now that you are free from the repressive contraints of your religious upbringing, why not just go out into the wide world and enjoy yourself? That's the best way to 'spread the word' :lol:
lostexpectation
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Post by lostexpectation » Thu May 22, 2008 9:03 pm

good advice alexis, sometimes when i allow myself to overwhelmed by the big issues in the world, i just say well 'i'll just do my best in my life and when the opportunities arise in my daily life to simply act well (let alone, enact change) then that's best opportunity to do so, but then i think i tried to do that in my work last year and quickly saw how even that smaller environment was such a behemoth it was changing me rather then the other way around, so perhaps there are things one can't do on ones own.

another new collaboration site, are you fan of crowdsourcing darragh

http://sites.google.com/ you can add of all of googles many gadgets for functionality
Last edited by lostexpectation on Fri May 23, 2008 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bipedalhumanoid
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Thu May 22, 2008 9:52 pm

lostexpectation wrote:good advice alexis, sometimes when i allow myself to overwhelmed by the big issues in the world, i just say well 'i'll just do my best in my life and when the opportunities arise in my daily life to enact change then that best opportunity to do so, but then i think i tried to do that in my work last year and quickly saw how even that smaller environment was such behemoth it was changing me rather the the other way around, so perhaps there are thing one can't do on ones own.

another new collaboration site, are you fan of crowdsourcing darragh

http://sites.google.com/ you can add of all of googles many gadgets for functionality
Ah well I'm far too bitter for that. I'll just concentrate on bringing other people down.
dj357
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 12:05 pm
Location: Limerick

Post by dj357 » Fri May 23, 2008 8:29 am

abc wrote:
dj357 wrote:A 'Pseudo-Secular' society is exactly what we have at the moment, but that could so easily change.

Let's make it change to OUR advantage!
Well, change it to not-our-disadvantage, more like! :)

After all, secularism is not about the 'stomping out' of private religious belief, instead it's about the separation of religion and state.
and that would be to our advantage as a secular society, no? ;)
lostexpectation
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Post by lostexpectation » Sat May 24, 2008 3:56 pm

a basic thread on whether we're even a republic, or pseudo republic
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthre ... st56026057
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