Page 4 of 6

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:14 pm
by davef
saintsebastian wrote:Moses then set himself about the task of writing the beginning of what is currently named "The Bible".
Right, so we'd better just take Moses' word for that, hadn't we?

"Hey guys! You'll never BELIEVE who I just had a chat with!"
"Who?"
"GOD! No, really, for serious! And he told me this way cool story, I'm gonna write all this down before I forget it..."

And fair enough, you caught me. I haven't read the bible cover-to-cover. I don't need to have read it, however, to reject the idea that supernatural deities exist.

As to the OT, since we've been hijacked (again, and I'm partly to blame,) I am not at all sure what I feel about overtly religious dress. A part of me feels sad whenever I see someone wearing a burkha, or even the Jewish head thing, whatever it's called, because I feel that they are bound or restricted somehow by it. I am not personally offended by it, in the same way that I'm not offended by someone wearing a crucifix around their neck, but with all the immigration we have seen in the last ten years, the incidence of much more ostentatious dress within the general population has increased, and I suppose I still get a slight shock when I see it. That said, we all see priests and nuns all the time, so I suppose my shock is more "Oh, that's different" than "Ugh, religious dress".

We, as a society, have a much bigger problem, though, since we've gotten so used to being monocultural, we have no idea how to accommodate a sheikh in the gardaĆ­, for example, or what to do when someone wants to wear a burkha to school. That's where my reasoning of "Well I certainly wouldn't want to wear it, but I'm not going to tell anyone else what to wear..." breaks down.

(EDIT to add everything after 'As to the OT'.)

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:53 pm
by saintsebastian
davef wrote:Right, so we'd better just take Moses' word for that, hadn't we?

"Hey guys! You'll never BELIEVE who I just had a chat with!"
"Who?"
"GOD! No, really, for serious! And he told me this way cool story, I'm gonna write all this down before I forget it..."

And fair enough, you caught me. I haven't read the bible cover-to-cover. I don't need to have read it, however, to reject the idea that supernatural deities exist.
The major problem with reading and interpreting the events recorded in the Bible evolves from the diversion created when one sees the text as religious only. The Bible is not only a religious text, it is also a complete historical text and in fact the oldest actual finding of the earliest history of the world dating thousands of centuries prior to Christ of which the text of what is called the New Testament began to be written around 2000 years ago. Fragments of the text of the New Testament and also fragments of the text of what is called the old Testament including Genesis and Exodus have recently been discovered in Qumran and in many other geological discovery sites around the world which correspond nearly word for word with the text that is available to anyone in this day in the format of the Bible. The encounter of Moses with God is witnessed in nearly every form of early historical documentation ever unearthed from geological sites in modern times. There are many fragments found which "fit" into the "whole" of the text of the writing attributed to Moses.

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:31 pm
by pantsheadmagee
saintsebastian wrote:]
The human body became shameful after the fall of Adam and Eve and since then has covered the human body with clothing to hide the shameful body.

...
...

Those who are immodest present an image of promiscuity and those who are modest present and image of virtuous intentions. In this way the thoughts, emotions and intentions of all are revealed in how they either cover or uncover their shame.

Firstly: I don't wear clothes because of being ashamed of my body. I wear clothes for three reasons. The first reason is that I live in Ireland, where it is generally cold, and therefore I wear clothes to keep warm. The second reason is that, even when it is a nice sunny day, it is generally expected that I'll cover up certain bits of myself, and if I wander around naked I'll probably get arrested. Thirdly, I'm well aware that in this society, if I was to wander about not wearing anything I'd get quite a lot of unpleasant attention, and I really have better things to do than deal with that. All entirely practical reasons, nothing to do with shame, because I don't see anything shameful about having a body.

Of course, according to you this means I'm "presenting an image of promiscuity", yes? Since, despite however many clothes I may or may not be wearing, I have not an ounce of shame that I am, in fact, a human being. This, however, has no impact on so called "promiscuity"- and of course, I fail to see why promiscuity is in and of itself any way a bad thing? Even if you could tell how many people a person enjoyed sleeping with by what clothes they wore walking down the street?

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:56 pm
by davef
saintsebastian wrote:The major problem blah blah blah text of the writing attributed to Moses.
I can't even begin to...

(My mind is going, Dave, I can feel it...)

Such shite, you talk.

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:50 pm
by Neil
saintsebastian wrote:You are right, there is nothing shameful about sex when it is enjoyed in the privacy and the holiness of marriage to the gal you have chosen to be your very own.
You know what? Fuck you.
It is the thought of witnessing the birth of a wee Saint Sebastion child that arouses me to desire with a woman.
Now that's Catholicism!

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:55 pm
by pantsheadmagee
davef wrote:
saintsebastian wrote:The major problem blah blah blah text of the writing attributed to Moses.
I can't even begin to...

(My mind is going, Dave, I can feel it...)

Such shite, you talk.
I think it's time for desperate measures here. I'll put the kettle on, and you can sit down with a nice David Attenborough documentary and a cup of tea and let the fabulousness of the real world bring you right back to, well, the real world.

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:22 pm
by davef
*shakes head*

*blinks*

Woah, I must've blacked out for a while there. Teh stoopid caused a mild stroke. Or brain fart.

Thanks for the tea. I needed that!

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:22 pm
by saintsebastian
pantsheadmagee wrote:
saintsebastian wrote:]
The human body became shameful after the fall of Adam and Eve and since then has covered the human body with clothing to hide the shameful body.

...
...

Those who are immodest present an image of promiscuity and those who are modest present and image of virtuous intentions. In this way the thoughts, emotions and intentions of all are revealed in how they either cover or uncover their shame.

Firstly: I don't wear clothes because of being ashamed of my body. I wear clothes for three reasons. The first reason is that I live in Ireland, where it is generally cold, and therefore I wear clothes to keep warm. The second reason is that, even when it is a nice sunny day, it is generally expected that I'll cover up certain bits of myself, and if I wander around naked I'll probably get arrested. Thirdly, I'm well aware that in this society, if I was to wander about not wearing anything I'd get quite a lot of unpleasant attention, and I really have better things to do than deal with that. All entirely practical reasons, nothing to do with shame, because I don't see anything shameful about having a body.

Of course, according to you this means I'm "presenting an image of promiscuity", yes? Since, despite however many clothes I may or may not be wearing, I have not an ounce of shame that I am, in fact, a human being. This, however, has no impact on so called "promiscuity"- and of course, I fail to see why promiscuity is in and of itself any way a bad thing? Even if you could tell how many people a person enjoyed sleeping with by what clothes they wore walking down the street?
It is easy to count the number of people one has slept with by taking note of the language of promiscuity which not only affects ostentatious dress also ostentatious speech. Both are strong indicators although I must admit I have not been able to obtain a precise number without asking the subject to reveal that information assuming the person has no shame of course.

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:26 pm
by saintsebastian
Neil wrote:
saintsebastian wrote:You are right, there is nothing shameful about sex when it is enjoyed in the privacy and the holiness of marriage to the gal you have chosen to be your very own.
You know what? Fuck you.
Everything is exactly as I explained to you. The spirit of lust arouses one to fornication in a promiscuous manner unfit for human consumption. Begone you spirit of lust in the Holy Name of Jesus Christ.

Re: Ostentatious religious dress

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:43 pm
by Neil
Begone you ignorant fucker in the name of human progress.

Are you actually as thick as pig shit or just an evil, evil bastard?

Tell me, oh fountain of wisdom and enlightenment, what exactly is immoral about sex out of wedlock, hetero or otherwise? In what way is it even a moral issue?