Should Aheists celebrate Henry the eighth?

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
Ygern
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Post by Ygern » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:52 am

FXR, I don't disagree with any particular point you made. But the OP used the words 'should' and 'celebrate'.

And I have to say that I feel no obligation to celebrate the life of a not particularly noble, rather self-serving, self-aggrandising, power-hungry monarch.

There is a world of difference between declaring war on Hitler to preserve the freedom of sovereign countries and what Henry VIII did.

His actions were motivated by self-interest and being able to retain absolute power and authority over his kingdom. His goal, in other words, wasn't all that pretty to begin with.

Do I think that there was an advantageous knock-on effect from his actions? Yes
Do I think I 'must celebrate' him because of it? No
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Post by Geekzilla » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:20 pm

Wened wrote:I celebrate Henry the VIII for his skill in geting some lovin'. As far as i know he was quite popular with ladies. Beside that i completly agree with Dolarlama
He was head of state and very wealthy - those helped a lot. The former he used to get rid of his exes - two were beheaded.

He isn't someone I'd admire.
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Post by Steodonn » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:11 am

For me the answer is no, Henry VIII shouldn't be celebrated for giving the Catholic Curch a kick in the arse because all he did was replace one religious oligarchy with another.
This. If one oppressor is replaced with another the people are still oppressed
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Post by FXR » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:33 pm

Ygern wrote:

Do I think that there was an advantageous knock-on effect from his actions? Yes
Do I think I 'must celebrate' him because of it? No
Would you commenorate or celebrate Henry VIII if there was was an advantageous knock-on effect? :wink:
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
Ygern
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Post by Ygern » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:34 pm

FXR wrote:
Ygern wrote:

Do I think that there was an advantageous knock-on effect from his actions? Yes
Do I think I 'must celebrate' him because of it? No
Would you commenorate or celebrate Henry VIII if there was was an advantageous knock-on effect? :wink:
You are kidding, right? :P

Hint:
Do I think that there was an advantageous knock-on effect from his actions? Yes

Do I think I 'must celebrate' him because of it? No
:wink:
FXR
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Post by FXR » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:48 pm

Ygern wrote:
FXR wrote:
Ygern wrote:

Do I think that there was an advantageous knock-on effect from his actions? Yes
Do I think I 'must celebrate' him because of it? No
Would you commenorate or celebrate Henry VIII if there was was an advantageous knock-on effect? :wink:
You are kidding, right? :P

Hint:
Do I think that there was an advantageous knock-on effect from his actions? Yes

Do I think I 'must celebrate' him because of it? No
:wink:
No I meant would you celebrate (I think commemerate is a better word) Henry VIII if the commeration had an advantageous knock on effect in the present circumstances as opposed to the the knock on effect of his actions at the time? (I'm tryin' to think of one)

In other words you'd be commerating the knock on effect of his actions not becasue of the knock on effect then but becasue of the knock on effect now of commerating the previous knock on effect.

Ah can't put et any planeeer...... :roll:
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
Ygern
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Post by Ygern » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:12 am

Ok, I think I get you. Ummmm. I'm still going to go with a No.


If I'm going to be celebrating any of The Grateful Dead (seeing as they're dead and all, and it really doesn't matter to them); then it (or he or she) would really have to mean something pretty significant to me.

I would do it for someone I felt profound respect for; I wouldn't do it for the cynical political statement it might make. (I mean that would be like being Catholic and wondering how much approval to throw behind the Liquifaction of blood in Naples seeing as it gives the faithful something to be 'hopeful' about.)
In other words....ewwww....*shudders*
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Post by FXR » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:22 pm

Wot if there was a negative knock on effect as a result of you not being prepared to commerate the knock on effect then....

The Grateful Dead are not the same thing because they were dead yes but they were grateful they were. I'd imagine not only was Henry not grateful but he was proable spittin' mad at being dead. Being a bit religious he was probably not thinkin' of the knock on effect his actions were going to have in this life but in the one he thought he was heading for next. He was proably imagining loads of women losin' the head with him for eternity..
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
Ygern
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Post by Ygern » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:28 pm

FXR wrote:Wot if there was a negative knock on effect as a result of you not being prepared to commerate the knock on effect then....
I think we are splitting hairs here. Hairs that were already kind of split-ended and reasonably unhealthy and ought to have been visited by Mr Sharp Pair of Scissors.

Seriously, I'm struggling to find a way of working this out in a way that doesn't make my eyes water :D

There could just as easily be a negative knock-on effect from celebrating a murdering bastard (and by murdering bastard I mean noble lord and sire, of course) as from not celebrating him.

In either case, you wouldn't know until after the fact. Its not a good enough reason to celebrate someone, in my opinion.
He was proably imagining loads of women losin' the head with him for eternity
See, this could have been his problem. :lol:
He should have replaced 'losing' with 'giving'.
Now that might have been worth celebrating.
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