The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
DollarLama
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The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by DollarLama » Fri May 22, 2009 11:44 pm

I'm sure you've all been paying attention to the media in recent days. I notice that discussion here of the findings of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse seem to focus on the indemnity deal. It's important that we take the time to familiarise ourselves with the deeply disturbing but highly readable Commission Report. It's available to download in bite-sized PDF files and in HTML.

I'm incandescent with rage; I cannot believe my ears when I hear the mealy-mouthed excuses and apologies from the institutional spokespeople and the utter lack of teeth in any of the media coverage.

We need to call for the dissolution of the despicable organisations responsible for decades of child abuse or at the very least, agitate to get the religious out of the education system - immediately.

regards
Ben
"Religious belief of all kinds shares the same intellectual respectability, evidential base, and rationality as belief in the existence of fairies." AC Grayling
ctr
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by ctr » Fri May 22, 2009 11:47 pm

I so agree :(
Each of us is here on earth for a reason, and each of us has a special mission to carry out - Maria Shriver
FXR
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by FXR » Sat May 23, 2009 9:42 am

I've just started a thread. Anything anyone can do to help would be appreciated........now and in the future.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2372
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
Scorpio
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by Scorpio » Mon May 25, 2009 7:14 pm

This whole ordeal in the media at the moment makes me consider violence... and that's not common with me...
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. - Anonymous
DollarLama
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by DollarLama » Tue May 26, 2009 10:09 am

(@FXR: Your thread is mainly about setting up a petition - I'd like this one to be about the fallout of the report itself.)

Here's how a Catholic organisation in the US responds to the publication of the report on the abuses perpetrated by the Catholic Church in Ireland:
Catholic League wrote: HYSTERIA OVER IRISH CLERGY ABUSE

May 20, 2009

After nine years of investigation, Ireland’s Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse has published its findings. More than 30,000 children, most of them delinquents, passed through one or more of Ireland’s Catholic-run institutions from the 1920s through the 1980s.

Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on the report today:

Reuters is reporting that “Irish Priests Beat, Raped Children,” yet the report does not justify this wild and irresponsible claim. Four types of abuse are noted: physical, sexual, neglect and emotional. Physical abuse includes “being kicked”; neglect includes “inadequate heating”; and emotional abuse includes “lack of attachment and affection.” Not nice, to be sure, but hardly draconian, especially given the time line: fully 82 percent of the incidents took place before 1970. As the New York Times noted, “many of them [are] now more than 70 years old.” And quite frankly, corporal punishment was not exactly unknown in many homes during these times, and this is doubly true when dealing with miscreants.

Regarding sexual abuse, “kissing,” and “non-contact including voyeurism” (e.g., what it labels as “inappropriate sexual talk”) make the grade as constituting sexual abuse. Moreover, one-third of the cases involved “inappropriate fondling and contact.” None of this is defensible, but none of it qualifies as rape. Rape, on the other hand, constituted 12 percent of the cases. As for the charge that “Irish Priests” were responsible, some of the abuse was carried out by lay persons, much of it was done by Brothers, and about 12 percent of the abusers were priests (most of whom were not rapists).

The Irish report suffers from conflating minor instances of abuse with serious ones, thus demeaning the latter. When most people hear of the term abuse, they do not think about being slapped, being chilly, being ignored or, for that matter, having someone stare at you in the shower. They think about rape.

By cheapening rape, the report demeans the big victims. But, of course, there is a huge market for such distortions, especially when the accused is the Catholic Church.
Read the original press release.

regards
Ben
"Religious belief of all kinds shares the same intellectual respectability, evidential base, and rationality as belief in the existence of fairies." AC Grayling
TomBarry
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by TomBarry » Fri May 29, 2009 11:26 pm

Thanks for posting the link to the Ryan report DollarLama, it's prompted me to start reading it and it's had a big effect on me already. As for people still enthralled with the church in Ireland, let's hope they get a clearer perspective on what it's really about....

Here's an example of one guy who probably won't change his opinion though, no matter how bad it gets,

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 69311.html
"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means." - George Bernard Shaw
DollarLama
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by DollarLama » Sat May 30, 2009 2:16 pm

TomBarry wrote:Thanks for posting the link to the Ryan report DollarLama, it's prompted me to start reading it and it's had a big effect on me already. As for people still enthralled with the church in Ireland, let's hope they get a clearer perspective on what it's really about....

Here's an example of one guy who probably won't change his opinion though, no matter how bad it gets,

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 69311.html
Good find, TomBarry. it's always useful to provide a snippet of the content you're linking to inline:
Paddy Agnew, Irish Times wrote:A SENIOR Vatican figure, Spanish Cardinal Antonio Canizares, prefect for the Congregation of the Divine Worship, this week appeared to downplay the findings of the Ryan report when suggesting that the millions of lives lost through abortion represent a much more serious crime against humanity than clerical sex abuse.
"Religious belief of all kinds shares the same intellectual respectability, evidential base, and rationality as belief in the existence of fairies." AC Grayling
lostexpectation
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by lostexpectation » Sat May 30, 2009 3:55 pm

ruari quinn keeps bringing up about the orders giving over their schools to the state, http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 48026.html

heres the question he doesn't know, doesn't seem in hurry to find out

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id= ... #g1994.0.q

see david norris got into a unholy row with ronan mullen and the discrimination against teachers allowance out for schools
test
tony
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by tony » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:06 pm

Brothers denied abuse days before report
Irish Times Wednesday, June 3, 2009
PATSY McGARRY, Religious Affairs Correspondent

THE CHRISTIAN Brothers continued to deny as recently as May 15th last, five days prior to publication of the Ryan report, that there was any abuse in institutions run by them. In letters to the Residential Institutions Redress Board, the Brothers repeatedly insisted that no abuse took place.

This is confirmed in letters seen by The Irish Times : dated May 15th last, concerning the O’Brien Institute in Dublin; November 20th, 2008, concerning Artane industrial school in Dublin; November 7th, 2008, concerning Glin industrial school in Limerick; and July 18th, 2008, concerning St Joseph’s industrial school in Tralee.

All the letters were signed by the Christian Brothers’ province leader Br Kevin Mullan, who was also a member of the Cori team which negotiated the 2002 redress agreement with the State.

A similar letter was sent to the Redress Board by the Oblates on February 14th last. Fr Michael Hughes denied “the applicant suffered injuries of the kind described” at the Oblate-run reformatory in Daingean, Co Offaly.

In his letters, including that dated May 15th last, Br Mullan repeats that the only form of corporal punishment allowed by the Christian Brothers in the institutions (for boys) which they ran, was “moderate slapping on the palms of the hands with the approved leather strap . . .”

He also rejects allegations of systemic abuse, inadequate feeding and clothing of the boys, the withholding of proper medical care; and “unsubstantiated allegations of sexual abuse there of pupils by staff members ...”
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Re: The Commision to Inquire into Child Abuse

Post by Ygern » Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:04 pm

Orders 'will pay more' to victims

From the BBC
The representatives of 18 religious orders named in the Ryan report into abuse have said they will pay victims further substantial compensation.
The orders met with the Irish prime minister Brian Cowen on Thursday.
They had been told they would have to increase their contribution to a compensation fund of over £1.3bn euro.
The Irish education minister Batt O'Keeffe said all 18 orders had apologised and agreed to co-operate fully with the government.
Mr O'Keeffe said the orders had agreed a mechanism to increase their contribution, and the process would be open and transparent.
The representatives of 18 religious orders named in the Ryan report into abuse have said they will pay victims further substantial compensation.
The orders met with the Irish prime minister Brian Cowen on Thursday.

They had been told they would have to increase their contribution to a compensation fund of over £1.3bn euro.
The Irish education minister Batt O'Keeffe said all 18 orders had apologised and agreed to co-operate fully with the government.
Mr O'Keeffe said the orders had agreed a mechanism to increase their contribution, and the process would be open and transparent.
continue here ....
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