End Religious Tax Breaks

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
tony
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End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by tony » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:13 pm

Now that the economy is in a heap and the government are trying to claw back as much money from people as they can, its time to end religious tax breaks.
DollarLama
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by DollarLama » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:29 pm

Undoubtedly. Can you outline what tax breaks the church(es) here currently get? I'm pretty ignorant on the subject.
"Religious belief of all kinds shares the same intellectual respectability, evidential base, and rationality as belief in the existence of fairies." AC Grayling
Irish Shaman
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by Irish Shaman » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:06 pm

Personally, no. I do not think churches should be taxed.

Why?

Taxing them allows them to gain more political and social prowess. It would also make them a more persuasive force when it comes to adding to certain topics, like abortion rights, homosexual rights, marriage rights, contraception and the whole Aid's topic.

What that means is that members of the clergy on certain boards, such as boards of education (and we know Irelands primary and secondary levels are already religiously swamped), boards in social sectors and boards in political debates would be granted yet more of a higher praise than they already undeservedly wield.

Sorry, it just is not a good move. For the economy it might, but why fix one system and majorly fuck up another few in the process? Not to mention it would be a horrible decision considering the current religious climate in Ireland and the EU in general.

- Paul M.
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FXR
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by FXR » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:32 am

The Religious Black Economy should be taxed. They should first be made to inventory all their assets and be made to keep public accounts. All funds they receive that do not go directly to charity should be subject to taxation. The Vatican loves money and they don't like to run loss making operations. Taxing them will not give them more power: they can't be any more influential than they are now. Ireland just passed a blasphemy law and the country is as far from a rational Dail debate on things like abortion or the right to die as ever.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN Richard Cushing, the redoubtable Cardinal Archbishop of Boston and confidant of the Bostonian Kennedys, was dying, he was visited in hospital by the Irish ambassador to the United States.
The conversation turned to the state of the Catholic Church in Ireland. Cushing shocked the pious-minded envoy by interrupting him: "The Vatican does not give a damn for Ireland."

"Why?" asked the baffled ambassador.

"Because Ireland has no money," Cushing barked.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 14603.html
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
mkaobrih
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by mkaobrih » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:25 pm

Well I’d tax them the same as every other Joe Soap. They have too much influence - hit them in their pocket.
They already have government influence - tax them to hell.
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
DollarLama
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by DollarLama » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:16 pm

Irish Shaman wrote:Personally, no. I do not think churches should be taxed.

Why?

Taxing them allows them to gain more political and social prowess. It would also make them a more persuasive force when it comes to adding to certain topics, like abortion rights, homosexual rights, marriage rights, contraception and the whole Aid's topic.
I don't see how taxing the church gives its statements any additional legitimacy. How do you see it working?

Surely their current tax-exempt status promotes the notion of the church as an entity deserving special treatment?
"Religious belief of all kinds shares the same intellectual respectability, evidential base, and rationality as belief in the existence of fairies." AC Grayling
washington
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by washington » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:18 pm

I agree DL...AI should issue a formal statement/demand for ALL churches to submit audited accounts of their income and inventories of their assets... this is required under tax law for all individuals and corporations in the jurisdiction...why should churches be exempt?
In the current economic climate the churches are very vulnerable to such enquiry and would have great difficulty resisting such a demand.
Perhaps Senator Bachic would table a question in the senate .
The Government is currently examining the assets of the eighteen religious orders implictated in the Ryan report...surely it is not such a great step to extend the trawl to the churches in general. It would be an interesting ploy.
Such a demand might even cause 'OUTRAGE' and 'OFFEND' a substantial number of people!
We might even be charged under the new Blasphemy legislation!...Oh Happy day!
Irish Shaman
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by Irish Shaman » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:49 am

Yea, sorry, totally re-thought my opinion on the subject...

I agree they should be taxed, but make it sure they don't attempt to have an increased influence in policy.
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Kevino
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by Kevino » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:23 am

Ending tax breaks to religious organisations is something I'd be strongly in favour of.
After all, can they really describe themselves as 'not for profit'?

An audit would open a whole can of crap for the church. For example, where exactly do church donations go?
Why trust them to use their tax free donations fairly? They have abused our trust in too many other ways to be allowed this privilege.
anadub25
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Re: End Religious Tax Breaks

Post by anadub25 » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:45 am

Who decides who gets tax breaks? What i mean is do we lobby a government body or the church itself?
"Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis."

- Sigmund Freud -
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