This sick little island

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
lostexpectation
Posts: 1993
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Post by lostexpectation » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:34 am

did you see there was another angle when the head of the teachers union relayed that he thought irish mothers were putting there kids into gaelscoileana too avoid putting their sons into a school full of foreigners (rather then for the chance to learn irish properly)
- thats what he said.
bipedalhumanoid
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Re: This sick little island

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:29 pm

brianmmulligan wrote:
bipedalhumanoid wrote: If, in Ireland, I can't send my children to a school that doesn't include a specific religion in the curriculum and that doesn't constantly expose my children to religious attitudes and religious symbolism, sadly, i'm going to have to leave this country and return to Australia (my country of birth) before they reach school age.
Don't worry too much about it. I was brought up in a very strict catholic family, but I had an excellent science education. By the time I was 16 my rational nature had led me to become an atheist. I had no particularly bad experiences with the church - it just had no evidence.
My wife (who is agnostic leaning to atheist) and I decided to send our kids to a local catholic school (the Gael Scoil is nearer but I find gaegloiri harder to take). She does not want to confuse them by me telling them that I am atheist, so I work on developing their sceptical side. I constantly tell them about the need for evidence. Every time they come home with another christian howler I say "maybe, but lots of people don't believe that and where is the evidence that it is true". It is working very well. As my 8 year old said to me last week "I believe in Jesus but I don't know about those miracles" - now how close is he to the truth? Bang on.

That does sound promising. Just out of interest, how much of his/her valuable school time wasted by religious education? In my school we didn't have it at all and our day was just as long as those schools that did. It leads me to conclude that while they were talking about god we were learning something usefull.
brianmmulligan
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Sligo

Re: This sick little island

Post by brianmmulligan » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:33 pm

bipedalhumanoid wrote: That does sound promising. Just out of interest, how much of his/her valuable school time wasted by religious education? In my school we didn't have it at all and our day was just as long as those schools that did. It leads me to conclude that while they were talking about god we were learning something usefull.
Good point. But to be honest I believe that the education system is so bad they are wasting time at many things (I work in the system myself). In religious education, to be fair, they spend a lot of time talking about morality. It also gives me the opprtunity to encourage them to be sceptical of even their teachers.
Brian
FXR
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Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: This sick little island

Post by FXR » Tue May 29, 2007 10:20 pm

bipedalhumanoid wrote:
FXR wrote:In the evening paper I've just read the following:

Catholic only rule caused by rising numbers
I have grave concerns about the education system in this country and in particular with its religiosity. The way the Irish government get around the church state separation by not running a state based school system is nothing short of a cop out.

If, in Ireland, I can't send my children to a school that doesn't include a specific religion in the curriculum and that doesn't constantly expose my children to religious attitudes and religious symbolism, sadly, i'm going to have to leave this country and return to Australia (my country of birth) before they reach school age.
With all due respect if I were you I'd seriously think of getting out of this country if you want your children to have a decent education. Just don't go to Spain, Poland, South America, Italy or other Vatican dominated country.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
brianmmulligan
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Sligo

Re: This sick little island

Post by brianmmulligan » Tue May 29, 2007 10:23 pm

FXR wrote: With all due respect if I were you I'd seriously think of getting out of this country if you want your children to have a decent education. Just don't go to Spain, Poland, South America, Italy or other Vatican dominated country.
OK, now we know where not to go. You were about to suggest where he should go....
Brian
Martha
Posts: 1084
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:47 pm

Re: This sick little island

Post by Martha » Tue May 29, 2007 10:39 pm

brianmmulligan wrote:I had no particularly bad experiences with the church
Rubbish!
Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.

Woody Allen
FXR
Posts: 3176
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:44 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: This sick little island

Post by FXR » Tue May 29, 2007 10:54 pm

brianmmulligan wrote:
FXR wrote: With all due respect if I were you I'd seriously think of getting out of this country if you want your children to have a decent education. Just don't go to Spain, Poland, South America, Italy or other Vatican dominated country.
OK, now we know where not to go. You were about to suggest where he should go....
I actually could'nt think of anywhere. Hitchens is right: religion poisions everything.

What about France?
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
brianmmulligan
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Sligo

Re: This sick little island

Post by brianmmulligan » Tue May 29, 2007 10:56 pm

Martha wrote:
brianmmulligan wrote:I had no particularly bad experiences with the church
Rubbish!
Martha, given your ability to tell us that that guy on the Internet was insane based on his body language it is probably even easier to tell that I have repressed experiences based on my contributions to a web forum. Now can you help me find out what the bad experiences are?
Brian
Martha
Posts: 1084
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:47 pm

Re: This sick little island

Post by Martha » Tue May 29, 2007 11:07 pm

brianmmulligan wrote: Now can you help me find out what the bad experiences are?
This Shakespearian quote might help you:

To thine own Self be true, thou cans't not then be false to any man!
Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.

Woody Allen
brianmmulligan
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Sligo

Re: This sick little island

Post by brianmmulligan » Tue May 29, 2007 11:15 pm

Martha wrote:
brianmmulligan wrote: Now can you help me find out what the bad experiences are?
This Shakespearian quote might help you:

To thine own Self be true, thou cans't not then be false to any man!
Emm...... Sorry, it still isn't helping. Can you be a bit more specific in your help?
Brian
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