Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
lostexpectation
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by lostexpectation » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:39 pm

Every auxiliary bishop had some knowledge of crimes

another great report from mary raferty
Ten of the bishops involved in this cover-up are still alive. Five remain in office and five are retired
including
Of those who remain auxiliary bishops in Dublin, the most interesting is Eamonn Walsh. He is tipped as successor to Archbishop Diarmuid Martin, and is deeply immersed in the politics of the Dublin archdiocese.

An auxiliary since 1990, he was intimately acquainted with diocesan secrets even before that in his capacity as secretary to the archbishop from 1985. Previously, he had been head of Clonliffe College since 1977.

Given his longevity at the heart of the Dublin archdiocese, Eamonn Walsh perhaps more than most of his fellow bishops faces the charge of cover-up and failure to report his knowledge of crime to the civil authorities.
test
washington
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by washington » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:59 am

Apologies if this is slightly off thread but I recall when the rampant mad pedophile Bill Carney was finally brought to trial for his crimes back in the eighties, his trial was reportedly held at mid-night..YES MID-NIGHT COURT...in a tennis/rugby club on the north side of Dublin. I was told this at the time and thought it very strange. Does anyone have info on this? How can we get info on the trial?...who was the presiding judge?...why was the trial held at such a strange time?...is there any truth to this report?
tony
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by tony » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:57 pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opi ... 45115.html
ogden lafaye
In 300 years the RCC will refer to these times as one in which the church was falsely and malignantly attacked by atheists, non-believers, government and Satanic enemies of Christianity. Against a massive effort to discredit the piety and chasteness of the clergy, the church and her followers fought a protracted battle against this evil... eventually triumphing in the name of Jesus and to the greater glory of the church.

I assure you that this will come to pass...this is the history of the criminal enterprise called Catholicism.
A comment on Irish Times website.Can see this happening within the next few years to be honest.
Last edited by tony on Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Citizen Wolf
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by Citizen Wolf » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:36 am

A caller to the Joe Duffy show last week make an excellent suggestion - recall the Irish ambassador to the Vatican and expell their representative here. This needs to be done in order to highlight the disgust of the Irish people to the way the Catholic church have hidden and protected sexual offenders over decades. The behaviour of the Vatican towards Ireland by not even bothering, or perhaps more correctly, by deliberately and calculatingly not replying to requests for information on the subject is a crime. Protecting sexual offenders is a crime and the Vatican are guilty of this by their silence.

I agree with that caller, we should push for the recall of our ambassador.
Citizen Wolf
tony
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by tony » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:12 pm

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analy ... 65622.html
We still haven't the guts to put the wicked in the dock
Nothing will change until the Catholic Church is removed from the education system, writes Emer O'Kelly

By Emer O'Kelly

Sunday December 06 2009

There was a man on trial in Munich in Germany last week. He was a pathetic sight, unable to sit up, his head supported by a special rest, his mouth hanging open, his 89-year-old body quivering. His name was John Demjanjuk and he was accused of having helped to murder thousands of Jews in Sobibor concentration camp in 1943. It has taken half a lifetime to bring him to justice.

Is there to be no end to his suffering, asked his defence counsel? Yes, says the rule of international law: when he has paid the full price for his heinous deeds. Only then. There are still some survivors of Sobibor, that hell on earth; pathetically few. But they will give testimony on behalf of the dead and tortured thousands. And Demjanjuk will pay, finally, all these years later.

Evidence has been given on behalf of the tortured in Ireland, and judgment has been delivered. But we still haven't the guts to put the torturers and their protectors in the dock. We haven't even stripped them of their awesome power. And dear god, our victims were children. We love children in Ireland. We will protect them. We will cast out those who harm them, not mercilessly, but in justice.

If only we would, or could.

Yes, there has been outrage expressed over the behaviour of the senior churchmen (and women: the Good Shepherd Sisters as well as the Rosminians came out only last week and said they had no more money to contribute to the compensation fund for the abused).

A decade ago, in the aftermath of the furore over the sexual abuse of children which was triggered by the Brendan Smyth affair, I called the senior churchmen of this country arrogant, wicked men. Many people congratulated me, but, they said, things would change now: it was all in the open, and the churchmen were humbled. And there were now "procedures" in place which would "ensure" that children were protected and that those who were a danger to them and who wore clerical collars would be handed over to the civil authorities. Others wrote to me (usually anonymously) and called me a hate-filled, bigoted bitch who wanted to destroy everything decent in Ireland. To that group I would have replied, if I could, that I would indeed welcome the destruction of all the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland stood for, including the culture which used helpless children as labourers and objects of sexual fulfilment. And the people who protect the perpetrators instead of handing them over to the law are equally guilty; they too are predators, I would have said.

And I told those who said things would change that they were naive to the point of stupidity. As John B Keane said to me shortly before he died: "The Church is still running this country, and they're getting away with more, because they've conned the people into thinking that they're not in charge any more."

They are in charge because they control the education system. The members of the Dail and Seanad, of the judiciary, and of the Garda, have been educated by them. Our lawmakers and law enforcers have been inculcated with the same moral ethos as the men and women who have destroyed thousands of children, and who are still refusing to bow their heads in shame.

Church thinking is twisted by hundreds of years of power and convoluted theological precepts, not least of them the requirement for clerical celibacy, with the depraved, sick and perverted results we have seen. At the time of the Smyth affair, we saw the distinction being made between the truth and Canonical truth. Now we hear Desmond Connell, a Prince of the Church, who presumably has the ear of the man Catholics are encouraged to call the "Holy Father", speak of "mental reservations".

At least Connell was condemned by Dr Vincent Twomey, the former professor of moral theology at St Patrick's College Maynooth. And Dr Twomey has also allowed his sense of justice and humanity to override theological mumbo-jumbo, and has forthrightly called for the resignation of all the bishops shamed by Judge Murphy's findings.

I am not holding my breath, because the mere fact that they demand "reflection", "examination" and "process" proves that they are in denial. The report is the reflection, examination, and process. The churchmen's reservations are an effective rejection of the report. These men will not change unless they are forced into humility and banished from all power. But they have trained their supporters well, with Bishop Donal Murray, whose conduct Judge Murphy found to be "inexcusable", being given forthright support by a group of 80 people in Limerick, presumably none of whom was ever raped as a child. Murray's excuse was that he didn't have "expertise" in the area of child abuse. He and his fellows, by definition, have no expertise in the area of adult sexuality either, but it has not prevented them from pontificating on it.

The Taoiseach in the Dail pathetically defended of the gross impertinence of the Papal Nuncio, who had the effrontery to think that a solemn judicial investigation on behalf of the abused should be subject to some bloody protocol. Cowen should have denounced this diplomat who is supposed to head the diplomatic corps in Ireland. And he should instruct Batt O'Keeffe as Minister for Education to begin a legislative process that will remove the Roman Catholic Church and its ethos from all of the schools in the public system as well as confiscating its property in the name of the sovereign state.

Removing its priests as patrons of the schools would be merely an empty and useless gesture. The abuse of power would continue, because the warping of minds would continue. Just as the sexual abuse would continue, as would protection for the abusers. And people would still talk of the "good" being done by "individual priests and nuns". But "good" priests and nuns are part of the ethos of power and corruption.

I exempt Dr Vincent Twomey from this catalogue of shame. And if I believed in god, I would pray for that good, courageous and lonely man Diarmuid Martin, Archbishop of Dublin, who has spoken out in the name of the god he believes in. He seems to be the only senior churchman who believes in a god of justice and mercy. He must be living in torment. But in his agony and anger lies our only spark of hope.

- Emer O'Kelly

Sunday Independent
Feardorcha
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by Feardorcha » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:54 pm

Brilliant!
ctr
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by ctr » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:17 pm

That must be the best opinion piece I have read on this sordid state of affairs.

Well done Emer
Each of us is here on earth for a reason, and each of us has a special mission to carry out - Maria Shriver
lostexpectation
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by lostexpectation » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:09 pm

she singles out a man for praise who constantly defends the churches right to dominate education?
test
tony
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by tony » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:31 pm

Emer O'Kelly wrote:
But "good" priests and nuns are part of the ethos of power and corruption.
.
.
And if I believed in god, I would pray for that good, courageous and lonely man Diarmuid Martin, Archbishop of Dublin, who has spoken out in the name of the god he believes in. He seems to be the only senior churchman who believes in a god of justice and mercy. He must be living in torment. But in his agony and anger lies our only spark of hope.
lostexpectation wrote:she singles out a man for praise who constantly defends the churches right to dominate education?
Emer hits the nail on the head in her article but it irks me the way she fawns over Diarmuid Martin.He has been playing a good game for the church over the past two weeks,he has even made it look like he is the one leading the call for justice!!Brady is now rowing in behind him.

Once the budget is announced this will all fade into the background.There was no discussion on the Late Late Show about the Murphy report either.
lostexpectation
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Re: Justice Ryan and Dublin Diocesan reports, reactions?

Post by lostexpectation » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:29 pm

frontline tonight is about the future of the church, check out the panel :/
http://www.rte.ie/ie/frontline/entry/th ... e_catholic
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