Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
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Bik
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Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by Bik » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:34 am

Very interesting ruling regarding the saying of prayers in an English town council, the court ruled citing the European Convention on Human Rights so presumably it could equally be applied here.
My question is would a member of the Dáil orCounty Council need to bring the case, as they are the ones directly affected, or could a citizen or group such as ours do it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16980025
A Devon town council acted unlawfully by allowing prayers to be said before meetings, the High Court has ruled.

Action was brought against Bideford Town Council by the National Secular Society (NSS) after atheist councillor Clive Bone complained
"Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion." Superintendent Chalmers
MichaelNugent
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by MichaelNugent » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:29 pm

Bik wrote:The court ruled citing the European Convention on Human Rights so presumably it could equally be applied here.
Unfortunately, the judge rejected the human rights arguments, and the case was won instead on a point of statutory construction of local government legislation.

Mr Justice Ouseley said: "A local authority has no power under section 111 of the Local Government Act 1972, or otherwise, to hold prayers as part of a formal local authority meeting, or to summon councillors to such a meeting at which prayers are on the agenda."

So the Goverment may well respond by legislating to explicitly allow councils to do this.

But the case does have a very useful impact in terms of consciousness raising.
Marks
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by Marks » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:19 pm

I am presuming that they say a Christian prayer in the Dail. I was wondering if this constitutes discrimination under Article 44.2.3 :-

“The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.”

Should the TD’s not be saying a prayer in every religion that is represented in the State?

This could mean that they would be praying all day which I’m sure would suit some of our more religious TD’s who could spend the day on their knees praying that the Government will re-open the Embassy to the Holy See.
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by HarryO'Criosna » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:09 pm

Marks wrote:This could mean that they would be praying all day
Some of them would be more productive that way, mind you...
Tulip1
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by Tulip1 » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:09 pm

HarryO'Criosna wrote:
Marks wrote:This could mean that they would be praying all day
Some of them would be more productive that way, mind you...
:lol: :lol:
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by irishmason » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:26 am

I think Kenny, Noonan and Gilmore have all reason to pray after their lies and threats to the people, but they have the advantage to go to confession and then they can start again afresh to lie and betray.
Absolute freedom of conscience
Voltaire Lodge No. 2 of Research under the GMOIRL Liberal adogmatic Irish Freemasonry
Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, Secularity, Solidarity
Feardorcha
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by Feardorcha » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:36 pm

Isn't Gilmore an atheist?
paolovf
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by paolovf » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:49 pm

Feardorcha wrote:Isn't Gilmore an atheist?
I thought so.
rccaulfield
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by rccaulfield » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:14 pm

Feardorcha wrote:Isn't Gilmore an atheist?
Yes, good to have a straight thinker in such a high position!
Bik
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Re: Prayers in the Dáil/Councils etc

Post by Bik » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:20 pm

rccaulfield wrote:
Feardorcha wrote:Isn't Gilmore an atheist?
Yes, good to have a straight thinker in such a high position!
I'd prefer an honest theist to a dishonest atheist.
"Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion." Superintendent Chalmers
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