Credit Union Prayer

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
paddie
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Credit Union Prayer

Post by paddie » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:42 pm

During the week I attended my local Credit Union AGM. As this was the first for three years there were around 380 local people there. At the start of the meeting we were asked to rise for the Credit Union Prayer. My reaction was to remain seated which I did. As I was toward the front of the venue I was not aware of anyone else remaining seated. I fail to see the need for a Christian prayer to be said at an event which has no relationship to religion. If people wise to pray go to church or their home but not a community event in a public venue. I felt my secular beliefs were being over ridden and excluded. During the next few days I have raised the event with others to seek their views on the prayer and most said they just rose and went along with it. I will be writing to my local credit union about the prayer being said at the AGM. I will also be seeking information from the League of Credit Unions on the issue. Could anyone advice me on this issue or is this a common event. Thank you.
Tulip1
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by Tulip1 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:07 pm

paddie wrote:During the week I attended my local Credit Union AGM. As this was the first for three years there were around 380 local people there. At the start of the meeting we were asked to rise for the Credit Union Prayer. My reaction was to remain seated which I did. As I was toward the front of the venue I was not aware of anyone else remaining seated. I fail to see the need for a Christian prayer to be said at an event which has no relationship to religion. If people wise to pray go to church or their home but not a community event in a public venue. I felt my secular beliefs were being over ridden and excluded. During the next few days I have raised the event with others to seek their views on the prayer and most said they just rose and went along with it. I will be writing to my local credit union about the prayer being said at the AGM. I will also be seeking information from the League of Credit Unions on the issue. Could anyone advice me on this issue or is this a common event. Thank you.
I have no advice but I am glad you want to do something about it as I always encounter the "ach you don't want to rock the boat" constantly here in the North West.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
paddie
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by paddie » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:08 am

Looking at more information as to the route to take and found this on Citizens Information site.

If a member feels that he or she has been treated unfairly or unjustly by their credit union ,he or she should write a letter to the complaints officer in the credit union.

The complints officer will respond to the member and try to resolve the situation at this stage.

If the member is not satisfied with the apology or settlement, he or she can appeal to the complaints committee in the credit union.

The complaints committee then invites the member to meet with it to air his or her grievance. If the complaint is not resolved at this stage it is forwarded to the board of directors in the credit union.

If the aggrieved member is not satisfied that the situation has been resolved the complaint is forwarded to the board of the Irish League of Credit Unions.

The board of the Irish League of Credit Unions will then appont a complaints sub-committee from its members, who will discuss the dispute and where possible resolve it.

Well lads this should be fun, may be the route to go. Any ideas as to framing the complaint ?
paolovf
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by paolovf » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:32 am

Yeah, the prayer seems unnecessary to me.
paddie wrote: During the next few days I have raised the event with others to seek their views on the prayer and most said they just rose and went along with it.
In my opinion, taking the initiative to go against the grain and discuss with people is a good start and I commend you on that. I often think it's amazing how so many people just go along with things in so many situations in life. And I wouldn't identify it as tolerance either.
Tulip1
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by Tulip1 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:06 pm

I would definitely put into it that no considering was given to the non-religious members. I would also ask if the Credit Union is a catholic institution and what the function of the prayer is.

Then I would ask why a prayer is said if they are not. They will most likely answer that they are all inclusive and did not discriminate on gender, sex, religion or sexual orientation. On which is a contradiction as the catholic church is against equal right for gays and discriminates against woman (no woman priests) etc.

I would also ask why it is not communicated that it is a catholic institution and that you therefore not could make an educated choice to attend the meeting or even the choice to become a customer would be influenced by this.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
paddie
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by paddie » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:55 am

I take your points on board Tulip 1. See it more a Christian issue than Catholic. Am still working on the complint and hope to hand it in Tuesday and will give the overall nature of the points of the complint on this post.
Rogmeister
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by Rogmeister » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:01 pm

According to the league of credit unions website http://www.creditunion.ie/whoweare/whatis/#d.en.397|
"Credit unions are non-sectarian and non-political, and continue that Irish tradition of co-operative self help."
So I think you have very good grounds for lodging your complaint.

Best of luck!
paddie
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by paddie » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:45 pm

Have handed in the letter of complaint. Complaint is that at the AGM the meeting was asked to stand and participate in the Credit Union Prayer. Outline of the grounds for complaint are
The AGM is a non-religious event.
I was unaware that I was attending a faith based event.
The Credit Union operates on a basis of equality and should not discriminate on the grounds of religious profession, belief or status.
As an inclusive organisation the CU should not seek to convert its members by promoting a religious prayer.
If CU has a prayer said why exclude a Buddist, Muslim, Jewish or a Humanist prayer/outlook.
What is the position in relation to Employees, Officeholders and Members who do not feel they can due their beliefs stand and recite the prayer. Is their position with the CU valued as equal members.
As the largest minority within the state those of no religious beliefs should not be treated as if they did not excist.
It is not part of CU membership to pray for supernatural powers to interced in the natural world and its financial institutions.
The complaint seeks to inform and direct the CU from its traditions that are now no longer appropriate.
I seek to offend no one but to seek inclusivness and equality which the event called for.

Well I have to see what happens now - will update when I hear more. Employee, Employer relationship in regard to prayer may be of interest.
Tulip1
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by Tulip1 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:38 pm

I would like to know their answer. Good points though.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
GT
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Re: Credit Union Prayer

Post by GT » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:01 pm

I had an issue with the CU prayer 20 years ago when i was a 20 year old director of ANSAC credit union (Army, Naval Service, Air Corps). To say i was the youngest director was an understatement as this was back in the days of "Dads Army" with most of the board being 10-40 years older than me.

When an older rural member at the study group (virtual CU before setting up the real thing) proposed starting the meeting with a prayer I objected vociferously stating that we were a financial institution not a religious one and that everyone was free to say their prayers before they came to the meeting. Luckily I was backed up by other directors and the prayer was dropped and I never heard it mentioned during my stint on the board.

20 years later I was posted a copy of the annual report and there in black and white was the bloody prayer....it wouldn't have happened on my watch Grrrrrr.
Regards,

GT

Faith is following someone else's lies.
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