****THE INDEMNITY DEAL****

Discuss church-state separation issues that are relevant in Ireland.
tony
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Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:58 pm

****THE INDEMNITY DEAL****

Post by tony » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:16 pm

Even though the indemnity deal has been discussed within other threads I felt it was too important an issue not to have its own thread. This deal will surely go down in Irish history as one of the greatest injustices of recent times.

Ahern defends indemnity deal over child abuse
Tuesday, October 24, 2006 Arhcive BreakingNews.ie
Taoiseach Bertie Ahern tonight defended a controversial 2002 indemnity deal with religious institutions at the centre of child abuse allegations.

Under the agreement, a total of 18 religious congregations were granted indemnity from any future litigation by victims in return for a 128 million euro contribution to a compensation fund.

Labour leader Pat Rabbitte claimed in the Dáil that Mr Ahern didn’t comply with Cabinet procedures or properly consult with the Attorney General on the issue.

Mr Ahern said: “It’s sad what happened in those days. You argue that they shouldn’t be paid or should take the land off the Church. It’s not a road I go down. I’ll make no apology to the House or anybody else the way we did it.


While people browse through this site it is a topic that should be noticed. People need to know what type of leaders we have and the injustices perpetrated by our Governments and the Cathloic Church. The people get abused and end up paying for it out of their own pockets. Claims for abuse have reached over a €1 billion. The church only paid €128million which is nothing to them.Look at all the property they own. The balance is being paid by the taxpayer. Bertie ultimately saved the Catholic Church in Ireland.
Last edited by tony on Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FXR
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Post by FXR » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:55 pm

Shouldn’t something be held each year to mark the anniversary of the Indemnity Deal. Michael Woods, who engineered the deal "for us" recently saw a deal go through which will give him extra money on his already large pension. Dirty work but it pays well.


The Redress Board:
http://www.paddydoyle.com/president.html

Tony O'Reilly, owner of the Herald and the Independent, backs the church.
http://www.catholicireland.net/pages/in ... 57&art=712

The commission on child abuse:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76601

PR from the paedophile ring:
http://www.cps.dublindiocese.ie/cat_index_12.shtml
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
lostexpectation
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Church still owes €50m to victims of sex abuse

Post by lostexpectation » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:14 am

http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/20 ... f-sex.html


While the overall compensation package will cost €1.1 billion, the controversial deal the religious orders struck with the state limits their liability to €128m — of which only €76.8m has been paid.

The rest of this figure was agreed to be paid by the taxpayer.


it seems any increased cost in councilling/redress schemes are also born by the taxpayer

Instead of paying half of the compensation fund for thousands of sex abuse victims, as originally planned, the Catholic Church is paying just a tenth of the total compensation because of the deal.

It was agreed that €128m would be paid by the Church of the original €254m compensation cost envisaged by the Government.

Brigid McManus of the Department of Education told the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee (PAC) the total received from religious institutions to date is €76.8m. She said of the €66m agreed to be handed over in property deeds, just a third of this, or €19.5m, has been received.

When the board was established in 2002, the Government estimated there would be 2,000 people eligible for compensation. While Ms McManus did not say how many cases have been dealt with, she said there are still 4,000 cases to be processed. Last year’s figures show 14,500 victims applied for compensation.

The scheme was set up following a public apology to victims by the Taoiseach in May 1999.

The Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse is expected to publish its report in October.
test
FXR
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Post by FXR » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:07 pm

And when the bold Bertie recently announced his resignation, with a fat wad of our cash forever heading into his pension fund, no one mentioned the Indemnity Deal. The single greatest betrayal of the Irish people since the founding of the state and no one dares to mention it. How long before we have a Bertie Bridge across the Liffey or an Ahearn Port Tunnel?

No one raised an eyebrow when it turned out the CCL had taken out insurance long before the reign of child rape was made public knowledge. Next week some apologist like Diarmid Martin will be telling us the CCL is the only place we can derive our morals from otherwise our children will all become depraved atheists.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
lostexpectation
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Post by lostexpectation » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:21 am

FXR wrote:And when the bold Bertie recently announced his resignation, with a fat wad of our cash forever heading into his pension fund, no one mentioned the Indemnity Deal. The single greatest betrayal of the Irish people since the founding of the state and no one dares to mention it. How long before we have a Bertie Bridge across the Liffey or an Ahearn Port Tunnel?

No one raised an eyebrow when it turned out the CCL had taken out insurance long before the reign of child rape was made public knowledge. Next week some apologist like Diarmid Martin will be telling us the CCL is the only place we can derive our morals from otherwise our children will all become depraved atheists.


there was few mentions in the paper praising him for his apology, but people like paddy doyle wrote a long letter in the times pointing out he had to do after the tv programs making clear how much cover up there been.
test
FXR
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Post by FXR » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:47 pm

lostexpectation wrote:
there was few mentions in the paper praising him for his apology, but people like paddy doyle wrote a long letter in the times pointing out he had to do after the tv programs making clear how much cover up there been.


Apologys are one of the most cowardly little tricks anyone can pull.

I just screwed you all out of €1 billion to pay for child rape carried out by the Catholic Church ooopsss Sorry!

The Inquisition, hundreds of years of torture rape and robbery.....ooops Sorry!
Seventeen hundred years percecuting the Jews......oooooops Sorry!

The Crusades, hundreds of years of bloody and savage religious warfare....ooops Sorry!

Preaching charity and care for the poor all the while dancing off with millions in unpaid taxes and billions in property ooooops Sooo Oh No that's not on the list!
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
mkaobrih
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Post by mkaobrih » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:53 am

Can this indemnity deal be undone? As the Irish Catholic Church has not kept its side of the deal can government and of course we the taxpayers change the terms of the agreement. – Just wondering - any lawyers out there?
egbrennan
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Post by egbrennan » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:25 pm

Re the O'Reilly article.....where's the bucket.
Ed.
lostexpectation
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Post by lostexpectation » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:39 pm

http://www.secularism.org.uk/irelandsfa ... hefin.html

there was an piece on this morning pat kenny show i think about
the Magdalene laundries etc, from this guy who wrote a book about the issue

how the state used them to get rid of people it didn't like...
not just young mothers, but mentally ill etc etc, it was used by the state to get rid people it didn't want to acknowledge, there were many cases of infanticide in ireland at the time, if the women agreed to go to a laundry instead of prison they could and the gov didn't have record that the infanticide happened, but of course it was harder to get out of magdelene laundry then a prison! so many never left so institutionalised they were, the author said he had the names of people buried in glasnevin or limerick that were women who went to laundaries instead of prison and died there, when they could have left prison much earlier, he said in 2002 michael woods stood up in the dail and refused to acknowledge them or the govs responsibilty to them.

he mentioned the 'corrigan report?', i missed the start of it but it was a report written by some priest where the basis was that everything not perfect by the church's holy standards should be suppressed we shouldn't just aspire to holy standards we should enforce em now, well he put it a better way, so every deviance should be curtailed and it suggest flogging be brought back for any deviancy etc.

and this was the basis of the church/state response to the abuses, the were to be shussh, hidden, the abused were to shunned and out away, that children testimony was noted to be worth nothing along with womens. many womens organisation, health, poverty,social, gave submission to report and they were left as footmote on the report.... must find more about it.
test
FXR
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Post by FXR » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:29 pm

mkaobrih wrote:Can this indemnity deal be undone? As the Irish Catholic Church has not kept its side of the deal can government and of course we the taxpayers change the terms of the agreement. – Just wondering - any lawyers out there?


I did read somwhere that based on the fact the CCL acted in bad faity in not revelaing they already had insurance there was a basis for cancelling the deal. But anyone who thinks that might happen should bet on Shamrock Rovers beating Barcelona in the Olympics at basketball next Tuesday after Bertie Ahearn is found shagging the Pope.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
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