LISBON TREATY

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FXR
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Post by FXR » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:15 am

Maybe his daughter would have voted Yes and her killer was a NO voter. Maybe that tipped the balance in favour of the No side.
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
Alexis
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Post by Alexis » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:02 am

inedifix wrote:It doesn't matter if it was Colonel Plum with the candlestick in the National Museum, or Fungi the Dolphin with a machete at the National Aquatic Center.
True. But it does matter that her murderer was someone she was intimately involved with.

Like all the other animals, we humans do not mate with people who are inherently different to ourselves as a species. We are sexually/romantically attracted to those whom we "think/believe" are healthy progenitors, i.e., it is our natural desire to propagate our own species. And that desire/thinking depends on our CULTURAL conditioning as children. We could end up mating with our siblings, if our own parents weren't careful :shock:
DollarLama
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Post by DollarLama » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:43 am

Alexis wrote:But it does matter that her murderer was someone she was intimately involved with
It matters to the people attempting to solve her murder, not to any point you were trying to make about Nelligan's views on Lisbon.

Sorry to bang on about this. Maybe we should fork this into a different thread on logical fallacies.
inedifix
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Post by inedifix » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm

Alexis wrote:Like all the other animals, we humans do not mate with people who are inherently different to ourselves as a species. We are sexually/romantically attracted to those whom we "think/believe" are healthy progenitors, i.e., it is our natural desire to propagate our own species. And that desire/thinking depends on our CULTURAL conditioning as children. We could end up mating with our siblings, if our own parents weren't careful :shock:
What the hell has any of that got to do with what we're discussing?

I asked you to show a causal link between a). the murder of Maurice Nelligan's daughter by her lover, and b). Maurice Nelligan voting Yes on Lisbon; and you give me a half-arsed bit of gibberish about mate selection, most of which is nonsense anyway.

This is just another layer of irrelevancy layered on top of the last two. So, once more, to return to the question you have now dodged for the fifth or sixth time: Can you please show or explain precisely how the murder of Maurice Nelligan's daughter by her lover, caused Maurice Nelligan to vote Yes on Lisbon.

And if you can't, just say so.

I
“What we call chaos is just patterns we haven't recognized. What we call random is just patterns we can't decipher. What we can't understand we call nonsense. There is no free will. There are no variables. There is only the inevitable.” Chuck Palahniuk
inedifix
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Post by inedifix » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:25 pm

@ Alexis

Just to put this in really simple terms for you, let's examine your argument. It appears to be as follows:

(1) Maurice Nelligan argues that the Lisbon Treaty is good for Ireland.
(2) He does so because his daughter was savagely stabbed to death by her lover.
Therefore:
(3) Maurice Nelligan is wrong, Lisbon is bad for Ireland

As you can see. It's not an argument that holds water. It ignores the substance of the argument put forward by Nelligan, and focusses instead on an event in his life. It attacks the person, instead of the merits of his argument. It is therefore a fallacious argument because it commits the logical fallacy known as Ad Hominem.

If on the other hand you're saying:

(1) Maurice Nelligan argues that the Lisbon Treaty is good for Ireland.
(2) His daughter was savagely stabbed to death by her lover.
Therefore:
(3) Nothing in particular, I was just saying.

Then you're just being irrelevant.

Which is it?

I
“What we call chaos is just patterns we haven't recognized. What we call random is just patterns we can't decipher. What we can't understand we call nonsense. There is no free will. There are no variables. There is only the inevitable.” Chuck Palahniuk
FXR
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Post by FXR » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:37 pm

Maybe the guy would not have had the money to buy the axe to kill his daughter if it was not for EU structural funds? So if we had not joined the EU his daughter would be alive so he is wrong to say the EU is good for Ireland (I'm just trying to fiugure out the logic).
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
DollarLama
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Post by DollarLama » Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:40 pm

Ah, that must be it. It's certainly more logical than any argument Alexis has been attempting to advance.

(Stop digging now Alexis, my atheist friend.)
SunWorshipper
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Re:

Post by SunWorshipper » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:07 am

TomBarry wrote:In response to Alexis,

Sending Irish troops into any war is not just the governments decision, it has to be a Dail decision and on top of that it has to be sanctioned by the UN security council. What more do you want? We can't just sit back and pretend the worlds a rosy place where wars don't happen, there gonna be plenty in the future as resources get scarce

As for trust in this government, I didn't vote for this one but I think they were right on Lisbon. They were so wrapped up in defending Bertie and then giving him a good send off that it allowed the No camp to promote any negative issue to attack Lisbon with, whether it had anything to do with the treaty or not eg - COIR and abortion

The reason I said this country is loaded is because it is. I meant this for us on a personal level. People have money and jobs now compared to Ireland 20 or more years ago. This is more pronounced for me because I've spent ten years working all over the world and most of it is a poverty stricken dust bowl. I remember what this dump was like to grow up in and I prefer the new Ireland and I attribute that to us joining the EU. Your right, material wealth is not the end all and be all but having a job to go to once you finish your education is a basic need of anyone
How times change.....
ctr
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Re: LISBON TREATY

Post by ctr » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:21 pm

Yea!

I, again, will vote for the treaty.

On a side note IMHO the EU is, on balance, a friend of the socially progressive here in Ireland.

Almost all the progressive legislation here was forced in by the EU. From "equal pay for Women" to "Rights for the Disabled".
Each of us is here on earth for a reason, and each of us has a special mission to carry out - Maria Shriver
lostexpectation
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Re: LISBON TREATY

Post by lostexpectation » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:37 pm

ctr wrote:Yea!

I, again, will vote for the treaty.

On a side note IMHO the EU is, on balance, a friend of the socially progressive here in Ireland.

Almost all the progressive legislation here was forced in by the EU. From "equal pay for Women" to "Rights for the Disabled".

i'd say the ireland wasn't a friend of the socially progressive, a very poor friend, rather the the eu being exceptionally socially progressive across the board
Last edited by lostexpectation on Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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